i saw a patchset a while back that made it possible to run VMs within VMs ;)
imagine you being able to run your own VMs within your primary VM
you could buy a big VM and make a few littler ones
I'm afraid it will cause BSD to fall much to the wayside in the future as virt becomes ubiquitous
yea you can run ESX instead of a VM running in ESX or Workstation
inside*
using for testing
hehe
or virt support will get better in the BSDs
yea and for god knows what reason NetBSD is leading the way with Xen support
yeah, it's funny that I got NetBSD working on Xen years ago
should run a few Windows 7 vms
round out the offering
me?
ya
no way
;)
why not
against my religion
oh come on Windows isn't that bad
although I do have 10 WinXP VMs running at DigiSynd
  /kick ballen^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
;)
I got asked for Windows VMs once
lmao, just messin I haven't used a windows box in many years
licensing issues are kinda a  pain
yes
If I take on other OS's, the next would probably be OpenSolaris (after NetBSD)
be fun to play with OS X Server though
OpenSolaris is a mess
all Solarises are
I manage a couple XServe's
imho
OS X Server is nice in a way, not nice in others
yea
if you have a problem, it is hard to google the solution
typically do it apple's way
i had to call apple support one day
it was pretty good
cool
never had to deal with their server support
also getting laptop parts replaces
always*
replaced*
bleh, typing bad need to sleep
hehe
alright I'm off for the night, good luck with migrations
i want to be able to script a FreeBSD fs resize (my experiment for tonight)
ballen: tnx, g'night!
if you figure out the resize, let me know
I'd be interested
anywho, night
will do
who's alive in here?
Qsource: did you still need a linux VM for VPN testing?
...
oh man
OH MAN
my life is forever changed...
I just live migrated a VM!
122 packets transmitted, 122 received, 0% packet loss, time 121059ms
Not even a lost packet!
ballen|away: so good news / bad news -- turns out live migration works with my current kvm / qemu version, so it is not totally borked.  Bad news is the VM i migrated was a Linux VM.  So there must be something about the FreeBSD guest that is freaking it out.  Nevertheless, something i'm sure an upgrade would fix
this is some f'in incredible shit i just witnessed...
que
is all ipv6 bouncin
or just me
obsidieth: i bounced the router a couple times
10 4
i'm done now, so no more outages
its not an issue, just making sure i didnt have to check it out
roger
4:44AM PST...  got a lot accomplished tonight, i think it is time to retire...
:D nice
later
got someone else after a fbsd vps too, perhaps 'dean' will stop by.
i pointed him in your direction
ah sweet, thanks
:)
man, tired...
cd $bed
aww
up_the_irons: any chance rDNS delegations are what you enjoy doing most after a long night's sleep? :)
Haha.
Everyone loves doing DNS when they wake up!
I think I'll do some DNS right now!
partytime
woohoo
up_the_irons are you around?
sleeping, afaik
g4y
Hello all, anyone rrom ARP support here?
from*
he should be on
I'm assuming that'd be up_the_irons?
yea
someone said dude was still sleeping when I asked
he was up
oh yea he slept at 5 am
Limb: welcome to #arpnetworks
bobbyw: welcome to #arpnetworks
up_the_irons: congrats on getting migrations working
even if it was just a linux vm
ballen: yeah, at least i know the basic setup is correct
yea
OH MY GOD
http://idle.slashdot.org/story/09/09/18/1548259/Burglar-Logs-Into-Facebook-On-Victims-Computer?art_pos=2
up_the_irons: hey, thanks
hahahahahahahah
jeev: hahahhahaha
yet-another-lobbyist writes to mention that Facebook addiction has finally caused real world consequences, at least for one would-be burglar. It seems that 19-year-old Jonathan Parker couldn't stay away from the popular social networking site, even long enough to rob a house. Parker not only stopped mid-robbery to check his Facebook status on the victim's computer, but left it logged in to his account when he left.
i wonder if he could sue saying that he didn't check the "remember me next time" cookie shit
even though i dont use ffacebook
heh
lattes are so good at 9PM
you're the coffee adict eh
even better at 11PM
Keep you from sleeping... :)
jeev: yes
i drink coffee for the taste
Nat_UB: thats the idea
when i put the creamer
cffee doesn't keep me up
I love coffee...but gotta get my beauty sleep...
makes my brain capable of writting more on this horrid paper
ballen: your thesis?
indeed
how long is it so far?
60 some odd pages
wow
what are you aiming for?
shrug, not page limit
gotcha
just till I have the content
yeah
I'd say it'll be another 30 pages +
if I'm lucky and concise
with all the screen caps I need to add it'll add another 10 pages on top of that
oh btw no need for the FreeBSD 8 Beta VM anymore ended up just setting it up at work
however when you're getting read to test 8 let me know
ready*
I must say though Latex is the best thing ever to write big papers in
roger on FreeBSD 8
heck yeah, LaTeX is da bomb
i did all my papers in school with it
yea same
esp. physics and math papers
The best part of LaTeX is the editor.
I just use TextMate
Oh you're missing out.
somehow I doubt this
... you're missing out on vim!
meh
But that was kinda my point: writing papers with LaTeX is better than with e.g. AbiWord because you get to use any editor you want.
aaah
thought there was some bundled LaTex Editor
yeah
i was like..
There's LyX, but I don't see the point.
"what LaTeX editor?"
LyX is actually quite good
I used it heavily
love using the word Hereunder
Next time I have to write a paper I'll probably try LyX.
i had hot keys for writing complex math formulas DOWN
so I could bust out really nice formulas fast.. i would look at the generated LaTeX, and it was way complicated to do that by hand ;)
yea
its wicked nice
I had a professor at UCLA.. went to his office, he had a HUGE office..  took "Computer Systems Modeling" with him.  Noticed him writing a paper in vim, on his Sun workstation, writing LaTeX markup
i thought that was pretty hard core
heh
that's disgusting
Nah man, that's how it's done.
vim has a sweet LaTeX package. Billions of aliases and whatnot.
mike-burns: o'rly? nice
jeev: yeah man, *that's* *how* *it's* *done" ;)
Speaking of vim awesomeness, I gave my boss enough of a hard time that he's using macvim or whatever the native app is.
nice
Now to get the Emacs users switched over ...
Ha, good luck switching them!
I was asked to install Emacs on aa production server today, and had to comply. :(
I don't want X on my production box!
I really want to try emacs, but I really don't want to install it.
mhoran: there was no emacs-nox11 package?
They wanted the X package.
So they can click around.
Ugh.
emacs is lame
mhoran: and if it's a FreeBSD box, I think it let's you pick the non X11 version if you install from ports
mhoran: oh oh
they *WANTED* it that way
No FreeBSD. :(
fuck them
Yup.
so many vim users here, this is awesome
We have one emacs guy at my job, but at least it's a programmable editor. It's not TextMate or RedMine or whatever.
The thing that made my boss want to use TextMate was Cyberduck integration -- but I guess this Cocoa port of vim has Cyberduck support as well.
someone needs to write a grammar checker that has more knowledge of the english language then a human
The Emacs X-forward thing is awful, though.
I'll give you a little cyberduck integration
ballen: How do you get a human with more knowledge of the English language than a human to write a grammar checker with more knowledge of the English language than a human?
I think it'd be easier to solve the halting problem.
have two humans do it
Bam.
Also, I approve of any sentence about grammar that uses poor grammar.
Huh. That was easy.
hah
seems like someone should start a startup that tackles the grammar check problem
and truely solve it
or at least improve it
we need to source some english profs
Knowing grammar isn't the problem; parsing natural languages is.
indeed
English profs are pretty mediocre at programming.
indeed
however they are good at english
think of the profits to be had
if there was a program that could perfectly correct a paper
Ah that's too subjective.
the school children would rejoice
english grammar lessons would become outdated overnight
Please no.
hah
see thats step one
step two after everyone can't talk
is to be able to parse voice
and playback the correct sentance
its gold I tell you
In the future all conversation will sound like Jerkcity.
HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL
The future is here.
it may be the downfall of society as we know but when has that stopped someone from making money
LOL
maybe we should just go with the mechnical turk approach, hire a shit load of minimum wage people to correct papers
actually
a combination
do that for a year or so
gather data
go from there
LOL
wonder if could source K-12 schools
copies of papers before and after corrections
it would seem after some point you'd have enough data
to catalog every single error and correction
possible in the lang
quick, someone recommend a techno artist
anyone, anyone?
rap?
any music what so ever
Didn't realize you were looking for music selections based on the requests :)
ya
just need something new, getting bored of my library
The problem isn't knowing grammar, just to state the obvious.
of course
its knowing how people fuck up grammar
Yeah, in a sense. It's parsing non-grammatical sentences.
yep
There are ambiguities in grammatical sentences; parsing non-grammatical ones is basically impossible.
wonder if anyone has looked at the fesability of playing a shuffle game with the words in a sentence. Looks for sentances that match known grammar rules.
the brute force method
Huh, that's a fun idea.
then go go worth and start substituting similar words
wow
retarded sentance
then go further and...
Doesn't scan.
with more and more comuting power at the desktop
computing*
Sure, all we need are a bunch of FreeBSD VPSes.
Oh i have to go to a bar now.
mmk
have fun
get drunk, don't drive
suggestions for diagraming software?
ballen: i always used xfig for freehand, and graphviz otherwise
bleh
haha
OmniGraffle is what I've used in the past
but its somewhat slow
at least on my mac
up_the_irons: questions on live migrations, can you live migrate to a VM that has more RAM or larger HD?
cause that'd be the hotness
somehow I doubt the live RAM part is possible
i just spent 14 hours trying to get simcopter working
and it finally is but crashes often
ballen: Memory "ballooning" is a feature of Xen. I'm not sure if the same exists in Xen.
The HD upgrade is certainly possible, however I think there would have to be some downtime due to the fact that the FS has to be modified.
However that process is quite simple.
yea maybe hotplug an additional drive
The memory balloning requires some client support, however.
Yeah. You couldn't resize an existing drive, but you could certainly hotplug.
Same with CPUs.
any idea if KVM supports it
Memory is more complicated, hence why the Xen implementation is complicated.
Not sure.
up_the_irons had to restart my VM to add an extra disk.
So I'm guessing, not at this point.
I know ESX has all that fun stuff
with a wicked expensive license add-on
Yeah. Their licensing is ridiculous.
schema for key/value db's is a pain
just thought it'd be cool to be able to scale a VM vertically on the fly
Yeah.
For sure.
We're getting there!
KVM has certainly come a long way.
that it has, I'm really quite impressed with it
I can't wait to dump Xen at work. But by the time I finally get the chance to do that, maybe Xen will become stable again. :/
I'd love live migrations, though.
But, not working.
Bunch of hacks.
yea, live migrations is so freakin cool
that feature alone makes virtulization so much better than bare metal installs
Yeah.
if you had it hooked up to BGP you could move a VM into another datacenter, across the world, etc
That's actually something I'm working on.
nice
But since live migrations don't work, :(
But hopefully BGP.
Our DR setup right now is pretty sweet, though.
cool
Coming from a company where we ran on bare minimum of everything, this is a big change for me, heh.
We actually have backups! Haha.
thats always a nice change
lmao backups are good
However, they don't test their software. >:o
hah
Which means, it breaks in the middle of the night and I get the call.
neither do I
tsk, tsk
I'm a sysadm not a dev
It's easy!
Write the tests and the code writes itself.
yaaaa