[00:00] i saw a patchset a while back that made it possible to run VMs within VMs ;) [00:00] imagine you being able to run your own VMs within your primary VM [00:01] you could buy a big VM and make a few littler ones [00:01] I'm afraid it will cause BSD to fall much to the wayside in the future as virt becomes ubiquitous [00:01] yea you can run ESX instead of a VM running in ESX or Workstation [00:01] inside* [00:02] using for testing [00:02] hehe [00:02] or virt support will get better in the BSDs [00:03] yea and for god knows what reason NetBSD is leading the way with Xen support [00:04] yeah, it's funny that I got NetBSD working on Xen years ago [00:05] should run a few Windows 7 vms [00:05] round out the offering [00:06] me? [00:06] ya [00:06] no way [00:06] ;) [00:06] why not [00:06] against my religion [00:06] oh come on Windows isn't that bad [00:06] although I do have 10 WinXP VMs running at DigiSynd [00:07] /kick ballen^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H [00:07] ;) [00:07] I got asked for Windows VMs once [00:07] lmao, just messin I haven't used a windows box in many years [00:07] licensing issues are kinda a pain [00:07] yes [00:08] If I take on other OS's, the next would probably be OpenSolaris (after NetBSD) [00:08] be fun to play with OS X Server though [00:08] OpenSolaris is a mess [00:08] all Solarises are [00:08] I manage a couple XServe's [00:08] imho [00:08] OS X Server is nice in a way, not nice in others [00:08] yea [00:08] if you have a problem, it is hard to google the solution [00:09] typically do it apple's way [00:09] i had to call apple support one day [00:09] it was pretty good [00:09] cool [00:09] never had to deal with their server support [00:09] also getting laptop parts replaces [00:09] always* [00:09] replaced* [00:10] bleh, typing bad need to sleep [00:10] hehe [00:10] alright I'm off for the night, good luck with migrations [00:10] i want to be able to script a FreeBSD fs resize (my experiment for tonight) [00:10] ballen: tnx, g'night! [00:11] if you figure out the resize, let me know [00:11] I'd be interested [00:11] anywho, night [00:11] *** ballen is now known as ballen|away [00:14] will do [01:41] who's alive in here? [01:43] Qsource: did you still need a linux VM for VPN testing? [03:28] *** [FBI] starts logging #arpnetworks at Fri Sep 18 03:28:53 2009 [03:28] *** [FBI] has joined #arpnetworks [03:48] ... [03:54] oh man [03:54] OH MAN [03:54] my life is forever changed... [03:54] I just live migrated a VM! [03:54] 122 packets transmitted, 122 received, 0% packet loss, time 121059ms [03:54] Not even a lost packet! [03:55] ballen|away: so good news / bad news -- turns out live migration works with my current kvm / qemu version, so it is not totally borked. Bad news is the VM i migrated was a Linux VM. So there must be something about the FreeBSD guest that is freaking it out. Nevertheless, something i'm sure an upgrade would fix [03:59] this is some f'in incredible shit i just witnessed... [04:27] *** mhoran has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [04:29] que [04:30] *** mhoran has joined #arpnetworks [04:43] is all ipv6 bouncin [04:43] or just me [04:44] obsidieth: i bounced the router a couple times [04:44] 10 4 [04:44] i'm done now, so no more outages [04:44] its not an issue, just making sure i didnt have to check it out [04:44] roger [04:45] 4:44AM PST... got a lot accomplished tonight, i think it is time to retire... [04:50] :D nice [04:50] later [04:50] got someone else after a fbsd vps too, perhaps 'dean' will stop by. [04:50] i pointed him in your direction [04:52] ah sweet, thanks [04:52] :) [04:53] man, tired... [04:53] cd $bed [05:20] aww [05:53] up_the_irons: any chance rDNS delegations are what you enjoy doing most after a long night's sleep? :) [06:09] Haha. [06:09] Everyone loves doing DNS when they wake up! [06:09] I think I'll do some DNS right now! [06:17] partytime [06:20] woohoo [06:36] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [07:02] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [08:37] *** bobbyw has joined #arpnetworks [08:37] up_the_irons are you around? [08:52] sleeping, afaik [09:33] *** ballen|away is now known as ballen [09:41] *** jeev has quit IRC (Excess Flood) [09:43] *** jeev has joined #arpnetworks [09:43] g4y [10:02] *** Limb has joined #arpnetworks [10:02] Hello all, anyone rrom ARP support here? [10:02] from* [10:02] he should be on [10:03] I'm assuming that'd be up_the_irons? [10:05] yea [10:05] someone said dude was still sleeping when I asked [10:07] he was up [10:07] oh yea he slept at 5 am [10:13] *** ballen is now known as ballen|away [10:48] *** heavysixer has quit IRC () [11:13] *** ballen|away is now known as ballen [12:46] Limb: welcome to #arpnetworks [12:46] bobbyw: welcome to #arpnetworks [12:46] up_the_irons: congrats on getting migrations working [12:46] even if it was just a linux vm [12:46] ballen: yeah, at least i know the basic setup is correct [12:47] yea [12:47] OH MY GOD [12:47] http://idle.slashdot.org/story/09/09/18/1548259/Burglar-Logs-Into-Facebook-On-Victims-Computer?art_pos=2 [12:47] up_the_irons: hey, thanks [12:47] hahahahahahahah [12:47] jeev: hahahhahaha [12:48] yet-another-lobbyist writes to mention that Facebook addiction has finally caused real world consequences, at least for one would-be burglar. It seems that 19-year-old Jonathan Parker couldn't stay away from the popular social networking site, even long enough to rob a house. Parker not only stopped mid-robbery to check his Facebook status on the victim's computer, but left it logged in to his account when he left. [12:48] * up_the_irons facepalms [12:49] i wonder if he could sue saying that he didn't check the "remember me next time" cookie shit [12:49] even though i dont use ffacebook [12:51] heh [13:39] *** ballen is now known as ballen|away [13:45] *** ballen|away is now known as ballen [14:02] *** ballen is now known as ballen|away [14:44] *** vtoms has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [14:51] *** ballen|away is now known as ballen [15:01] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [16:39] *** bobbyw has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [17:59] *** ballen is now known as ballen|away [18:01] *** ballen|away is now known as ballen [18:02] lattes are so good at 9PM [18:02] you're the coffee adict eh [18:02] even better at 11PM [18:02] Keep you from sleeping... :) [18:03] jeev: yes [18:03] i drink coffee for the taste [18:03] Nat_UB: thats the idea [18:03] when i put the creamer [18:03] cffee doesn't keep me up [18:03] I love coffee...but gotta get my beauty sleep... [18:04] makes my brain capable of writting more on this horrid paper [18:07] ballen: your thesis? [18:07] indeed [18:07] how long is it so far? [18:07] 60 some odd pages [18:07] wow [18:07] what are you aiming for? [18:07] shrug, not page limit [18:07] gotcha [18:07] just till I have the content [18:08] yeah [18:08] I'd say it'll be another 30 pages + [18:08] if I'm lucky and concise [18:08] with all the screen caps I need to add it'll add another 10 pages on top of that [18:10] oh btw no need for the FreeBSD 8 Beta VM anymore ended up just setting it up at work [18:10] however when you're getting read to test 8 let me know [18:10] ready* [18:13] I must say though Latex is the best thing ever to write big papers in [18:13] roger on FreeBSD 8 [18:13] heck yeah, LaTeX is da bomb [18:14] i did all my papers in school with it [18:14] yea same [18:14] esp. physics and math papers [18:15] The best part of LaTeX is the editor. [18:15] I just use TextMate [18:15] Oh you're missing out. [18:16] somehow I doubt this [18:16] ... you're missing out on vim! [18:16] meh [18:17] But that was kinda my point: writing papers with LaTeX is better than with e.g. AbiWord because you get to use any editor you want. [18:17] aaah [18:17] thought there was some bundled LaTex Editor [18:18] * up_the_irons scratches head [18:18] yeah [18:18] i was like.. [18:18] There's LyX, but I don't see the point. [18:18] "what LaTeX editor?" [18:18] LyX is actually quite good [18:18] I used it heavily [18:18] love using the word Hereunder [18:18] Next time I have to write a paper I'll probably try LyX. [18:18] i had hot keys for writing complex math formulas DOWN [18:19] so I could bust out really nice formulas fast.. i would look at the generated LaTeX, and it was way complicated to do that by hand ;) [18:20] yea [18:20] its wicked nice [18:22] I had a professor at UCLA.. went to his office, he had a HUGE office.. took "Computer Systems Modeling" with him. Noticed him writing a paper in vim, on his Sun workstation, writing LaTeX markup [18:23] i thought that was pretty hard core [18:23] heh [18:23] that's disgusting [18:24] Nah man, that's how it's done. [18:25] vim has a sweet LaTeX package. Billions of aliases and whatnot. [18:25] mike-burns: o'rly? nice [18:26] jeev: yeah man, *that's* *how* *it's* *done" ;) [18:26] Speaking of vim awesomeness, I gave my boss enough of a hard time that he's using macvim or whatever the native app is. [18:26] nice [18:26] Now to get the Emacs users switched over ... [18:26] Ha, good luck switching them! [18:26] I was asked to install Emacs on aa production server today, and had to comply. :( [18:26] I don't want X on my production box! [18:26] I really want to try emacs, but I really don't want to install it. [18:26] mhoran: there was no emacs-nox11 package? [18:27] They wanted the X package. [18:27] So they can click around. [18:27] Ugh. [18:27] emacs is lame [18:27] mhoran: and if it's a FreeBSD box, I think it let's you pick the non X11 version if you install from ports [18:27] mhoran: oh oh [18:27] they *WANTED* it that way [18:27] No FreeBSD. :( [18:27] fuck them [18:27] Yup. [18:27] so many vim users here, this is awesome [18:28] * ballen hates that one of his developers insists on using it [18:28] *** heavysixer has quit IRC () [18:28] We have one emacs guy at my job, but at least it's a programmable editor. It's not TextMate or RedMine or whatever. [18:28] The thing that made my boss want to use TextMate was Cyberduck integration -- but I guess this Cocoa port of vim has Cyberduck support as well. [18:29] someone needs to write a grammar checker that has more knowledge of the english language then a human [18:29] The Emacs X-forward thing is awful, though. [18:29] I'll give you a little cyberduck integration [18:30] ballen: How do you get a human with more knowledge of the English language than a human to write a grammar checker with more knowledge of the English language than a human? [18:30] I think it'd be easier to solve the halting problem. [18:30] have two humans do it [18:30] Bam. [18:30] Also, I approve of any sentence about grammar that uses poor grammar. [18:30] Huh. That was easy. [18:31] hah [18:32] seems like someone should start a startup that tackles the grammar check problem [18:32] and truely solve it [18:32] or at least improve it [18:32] we need to source some english profs [18:33] Knowing grammar isn't the problem; parsing natural languages is. [18:33] indeed [18:33] English profs are pretty mediocre at programming. [18:33] indeed [18:33] however they are good at english [18:33] think of the profits to be had [18:34] if there was a program that could perfectly correct a paper [18:34] Ah that's too subjective. [18:34] the school children would rejoice [18:34] english grammar lessons would become outdated overnight [18:34] Please no. [18:35] hah [18:35] see thats step one [18:35] step two after everyone can't talk [18:35] is to be able to parse voice [18:35] and playback the correct sentance [18:35] its gold I tell you [18:36] In the future all conversation will sound like Jerkcity. [18:36] HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL [18:36] The future is here. [18:36] it may be the downfall of society as we know but when has that stopped someone from making money [18:37] LOL [18:44] maybe we should just go with the mechnical turk approach, hire a shit load of minimum wage people to correct papers [18:44] actually [18:45] a combination [18:45] do that for a year or so [18:45] gather data [18:45] go from there [18:46] LOL [18:47] wonder if could source K-12 schools [18:47] copies of papers before and after corrections [18:47] it would seem after some point you'd have enough data [18:48] to catalog every single error and correction [18:48] possible in the lang [18:55] quick, someone recommend a techno artist [18:56] anyone, anyone? [19:00] rap? [19:00] any music what so ever [19:04] Didn't realize you were looking for music selections based on the requests :) [19:04] ya [19:05] just need something new, getting bored of my library [19:07] The problem isn't knowing grammar, just to state the obvious. [19:07] of course [19:08] its knowing how people fuck up grammar [19:08] Yeah, in a sense. It's parsing non-grammatical sentences. [19:09] yep [19:09] There are ambiguities in grammatical sentences; parsing non-grammatical ones is basically impossible. [19:10] wonder if anyone has looked at the fesability of playing a shuffle game with the words in a sentence. Looks for sentances that match known grammar rules. [19:10] the brute force method [19:10] *** bobbyw has joined #arpnetworks [19:11] Huh, that's a fun idea. [19:11] then go go worth and start substituting similar words [19:12] wow [19:12] retarded sentance [19:12] then go further and... [19:12] Doesn't scan. [19:12] with more and more comuting power at the desktop [19:12] computing* [19:13] Sure, all we need are a bunch of FreeBSD VPSes. [19:14] Oh i have to go to a bar now. [19:14] mmk [19:14] have fun [19:14] get drunk, don't drive [19:23] suggestions for diagraming software? [20:02] *** bobbyw has quit IRC ("Leaving.") [20:07] ballen: i always used xfig for freehand, and graphviz otherwise [20:07] bleh [20:27] haha [20:33] OmniGraffle is what I've used in the past [20:33] but its somewhat slow [20:33] at least on my mac [20:55] up_the_irons: questions on live migrations, can you live migrate to a VM that has more RAM or larger HD? [20:55] cause that'd be the hotness [20:55] somehow I doubt the live RAM part is possible [23:23] i just spent 14 hours trying to get simcopter working [23:23] and it finally is but crashes often [23:27] ballen: Memory "ballooning" is a feature of Xen. I'm not sure if the same exists in Xen. [23:28] The HD upgrade is certainly possible, however I think there would have to be some downtime due to the fact that the FS has to be modified. [23:28] However that process is quite simple. [23:28] yea maybe hotplug an additional drive [23:28] The memory balloning requires some client support, however. [23:28] Yeah. You couldn't resize an existing drive, but you could certainly hotplug. [23:28] Same with CPUs. [23:28] any idea if KVM supports it [23:28] Memory is more complicated, hence why the Xen implementation is complicated. [23:29] Not sure. [23:29] up_the_irons had to restart my VM to add an extra disk. [23:29] So I'm guessing, not at this point. [23:29] I know ESX has all that fun stuff [23:29] with a wicked expensive license add-on [23:29] Yeah. Their licensing is ridiculous. [23:31] schema for key/value db's is a pain [23:32] just thought it'd be cool to be able to scale a VM vertically on the fly [23:32] Yeah. [23:32] For sure. [23:32] We're getting there! [23:32] KVM has certainly come a long way. [23:32] that it has, I'm really quite impressed with it [23:33] I can't wait to dump Xen at work. But by the time I finally get the chance to do that, maybe Xen will become stable again. :/ [23:33] I'd love live migrations, though. [23:33] But, not working. [23:33] Bunch of hacks. [23:33] yea, live migrations is so freakin cool [23:34] that feature alone makes virtulization so much better than bare metal installs [23:34] Yeah. [23:35] if you had it hooked up to BGP you could move a VM into another datacenter, across the world, etc [23:35] That's actually something I'm working on. [23:35] nice [23:35] But since live migrations don't work, :( [23:35] But hopefully BGP. [23:36] Our DR setup right now is pretty sweet, though. [23:36] cool [23:36] Coming from a company where we ran on bare minimum of everything, this is a big change for me, heh. [23:36] We actually have backups! Haha. [23:37] thats always a nice change [23:37] lmao backups are good [23:37] However, they don't test their software. >:o [23:37] hah [23:37] Which means, it breaks in the middle of the night and I get the call. [23:37] neither do I [23:37] tsk, tsk [23:37] I'm a sysadm not a dev [23:37] It's easy! [23:38] Write the tests and the code writes itself. [23:38] yaaaa