Every time I have to install GNU Bash for some program it makes me think: this developer could have picked any programming language, with any amount of expressivity and capability, and they picked GNU Bash?
I tend to pick bash for simple tasks.  It's always installed everywhere, so I don't need to worry about it being a dependency.
I don't have it installed on anything, so I tend not to use it.
i c
i don't install bash on openbsd
Also not installed on FreeBSD.
i think lots of ports depend on it in freebsd?
I guess I don't have any of those ports installed.
a lot of stuff needs gmake
bloody gnu
[mhoran@friction] ~% bash
zsh: correct 'bash' to 'hash' [nyae]? n
hahaha
you don't need hash
i installed zsh on opensolaris
I also uninstall gmake every time a port installs it for build, and generally use packages so long as they don't pull X11 or something else insane.
Yeah same. Switching to packages has helped remove any GNU dependencies.
I've come across a number of scripts that "relied on" bash only as far as calling it in the shabang, but didn't actually utilize bash-isms, the developer just didn't know any better to use /bin/sh :(
Or scripts with bash in the shebang but only so that they can declare functions using the GNU Bash syntax.
https://www.facebook.com/owendelong/posts/10153204974284649
someone correct me if I'm wrong.. but is the "service" command in Ubuntu Trusty part of Upstart, but on Xenial, it is systemd ?
mercutio: ^^ :)
Yup.
On debian it routes to systemd somefuckinghow.
I don't even understand how Linux works anymore.
up_the_irons: it can also link to init.d i think
well that's not confusing , is it
systemv started the confusion
it escalated from there
no wonder the etcd service script on my Xenial nodes don't work, yet the scripts are using it like upstart
i swear to god i'm going to make my own linux distro
systemd isn't actually too bad to use
up_the_irons: good luck :)
haha
ARP Linux™ LOL
I just have to learn all new tools that are different than the ones I've been using for 20 years.
yeah it's so annoying
then you can learn to love to hate autoconf, automake, etc.
... and different from the tools that I have to use on other systems.
and you have to re-learn them every 2 years when the whole thing changes
Yup.
i haven't found much has changed really
rc.local vs systemd is the main thing
probably lots of things i'm missing
mercutio: so is /etc/init still used by systemd (was Upstart)
nope
but ubuntu has lots of legacy stuff
systemd isnt' too hard
Hard isn't the point. Unnecessary change is.
systemctl start ssh.service
systemctl enable ssh.service
mhoran: yeah unnecessary changes are totally annoying
i think that kind of way of doing things is pretty easy
as is over-engineering
sure it's different, and seems really confusing at first
but it's not altogether bad
mercutio: OK, so if I have an Upstart file in /etc/init, and I want to port it to work with systemd, where's the systemd version of /etc/init ?
I still have to manage init.d scripts from services that haven't migrated, and then know to use systemctl vs /etc/init.d when I use different distros that haven't ugraded, and then balance that with FreeBSD /etc/rc.d ... and then OS X launchctl ...
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers
mercutio: thanks :)
 /usr/lib/systemd/user i think
i use system/ though
ok
What's wrong with /etc/systemd/{system,user} or is that not "in" Ubuntu?
I've always left /usr/lib/systemd for packaged services (sockets, timers, etc) and put my own hand-rolled in /etc/systemd/
well /etc is kind of meant to be local isn't it?
so if you want to have the units on multiple systems /usr seems to make sense
I'd still argue that /usr/local/* would be better-suited. But I have no idea if systemd itself uses/recognizes /usr/local for anything.
i don't think it does.  but yeh /usr/local was the standard
man hier seems to suggest that /usr/local isn't supported
According to systemd.unit(5) it's /{etc,run,lib}/systemd/
Plus various user-level directories.
 /etc/systemd/system │ Local configuration, /run/systemd/system │ Runtime units, /lib/systemd/system │ Units of installed packages
what's /run/systemd
damn i'm behind aren't i
 /var/run is a symlink to /run these days
and /run is a tmpfs
(Manpage from Debian Jessie)
yeh i thought run had pid etc in it
so run having systemd units sounded strange
I guess "runtime units" means temporary in this context
does anyone here pay for lwn?
I do
HOORAY! Now that the console server is running a moderately recent OpenBSD, I can use ed25519 keys :D
:)