[04:12] Sept. 10 was a quiet day... [11:56] In what context up_the_irons? [11:59] it didn't rain kellytk [12:03] daca, I don't understand [12:20] like the entire scrollback fits on one page [12:21] mkb, got it, thanks [14:46] up_the_irons is the only one who spoke on my friday 11 sep, (and i suspect his thu 10 sep) [16:49] mercutio: kellytk : for me, there was no scrollback at all on Sept 10. Just joins / quiets. That's what I meant by quiet. [16:49] up_the_irons: but you spoke, and broke the silence! [16:50] for me, it was sept. 11 already [16:50] oh [16:50] right [17:45] s/quiets/quits [17:45] mercutio: kellytk : for me, there was no scrollback at all on Sept 10. Just joins / quits. That's what I meant by quiet. [18:23] yea, i kept thinking my client dropped again because it was so quiet yesterday [18:23] had bad luck with 3 different freenode servers taking a dump, this one seems ok [19:30] *** RandalSchwartz has joined #arpnetworks [19:30] * RandalSchwartz waves [19:55] yeh freenode has been a bit unstable. [19:55] i got booted within the last week [19:55] it's a lot more stable than it used to be though [19:58] I was on a stable server for 30ish days before the IPv6 troubles knocked me offline :( [20:00] brycec: are you back to using ipv6? [20:01] it seems to be pretty stable now. [20:03] I'm still using v6 for freenode [20:16] i am too, just not from my arp vm anymore [20:18] Estimates of when IPv6 will be as generally stable as IPv4? I think if that doesn't occur within two years it could become an issue [20:18] what's not stable? [20:19] I haven't migrated yet so I can only gauge others' experiences [20:19] it's network-dependent [20:19] my home ipv6 is fine [20:19] v6 works as long as your router doesn't advertise false v6 connectivity [20:19] and sadly, many of them do. [20:20] what we w ere talking about was some congestion/weirdness that was happening w/arp [20:20] there's always fine tuning... :) [20:20] O [20:20] connection to he.net was dropping [20:20] there are devices that have flaky/bad ipv6 support, which leads people to have to disable it (glaring at android here) [20:21] I'm always on freenode via v6. I get dropped about once a week. [20:21] that's not bad. [20:21] I'll be giving it a while longer yet [20:21] i got dropped 3-4 times yesterday, just kept getting servers that were having trouble [20:21] i think that there's a smaller number of large issues with internet these days, but more smaller issues [20:21] running peering hot seems pretty popular in the US [20:22] what does "peering hot" mean? [20:22] Attractive traffic shapes? [20:22] it means they have say a 10 gigabit pipe they're trying to route 12 gigabit through [20:22] it was the network neutrality / netflix thing [20:23] it often is worse in some cities than others [20:24] http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/level-3-blames-internet-slowdowns-on-isps-refusal-to-upgrade-networks/ [20:24] stuff like this [20:24] Ars Technica: "Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on ISPs’ refusal to upgrade networks" [20:24] heh [20:24] refusal to "upgrade networks" [20:24] e.g. refusal to provide peering without $ [20:24] well sometimes they have settlement free peering [20:24] That's what she said!! [20:25] but there's a refusal to upgrade capacity [20:25] right, without providing a good reason or money [20:25] * RandalSchwartz just finished an 1125 mile run in western and central oregon in 4 days [20:25] i think when you're using tons of traffic like netflix, there should be some sort of agreement to cover cost [20:25] nice [20:25] exhausted [20:25] but totally worth it [20:26] s/using/pushing [20:26] i think when you're pushing tons of traffic like netflix, there should be some sort of agreement to cover cost [20:26] there is absolutely nothing like crater lake [20:26] i've never been [20:26] haven't ever been to the NW [20:26] I think it rivals the grand canyon, except that you can take it all in at one view [20:27] and then there's 100 views like that around the rim [20:28] the pure blue clear water... the volcanic rock... all amazing. [20:31] m0unds: what about if you're pulling lots of traffic like comcast? [20:33] netflix offer local caches [20:33] it seems a sensible way to go in some ways [20:33] but now days you can do 10 gigabit over a single fibre. [20:34] comcast operate an eyeball network, content providers want eyeballs for their content [20:34] they do transit too, but primarily that's to provide fat pipes for content consumption [20:34] comcast offer cable tv [20:35] and so netflix competes with cable tv [20:35] and reduces their total income available [20:35] directv and dish network both take more customers from cable than netflix [20:35] so if they can increase the cost of other people providing content it maeks it harder for other people to compete [20:35] giving them way too much credit [20:35] be it through lobbying to make it more difficult for other people to receive internet in areas they serve [20:35] they pioneered streaming content to home, but they don't provide anywhere near a direct alternative to catv [20:35] or making it more expensive for content providers to provide content [20:36] ahh [20:36] idk, i think internet should be free :) [20:36] more bandwidth, more content [20:37] meh [20:37] and anything that raises total bandwidth available rather than has smart caching etc reduces the cost of bandwidth [20:37] which means that it's more free [20:37] the 1gig to 10 gig movement is being REALLY slow [20:37] not on comcast's network :) [20:38] since they're already 100gig in most metros and 10gig to headend gear [20:38] how many people have 10gbe at home though? [20:38] nobody, not really necessary imo [20:38] just like local loop gig-e, who cares? [20:38] oh look, i can get content in my metro at gigabit speeds...which amounts to nearly nothing [20:39] that's kind of want somep eople said about gig-e 15 years ago [20:39] heh [20:39] i can run a speed test to a local speed test server and be happy i have a gig-e pipe and no content provider to deliver at anywhere near that speed [20:39] nz is being fast with higher speed adoption recently [20:39] but international speeds still suck [20:39] and there's not much local content [20:40] still, 200 megabit seems to be the new sweet spot, if being in a fibre area [20:40] and it's weird, given options beetween 100 and 200 nearly everyone seems to go for 200 [20:40] but now it's basically 30 down or 200 down [20:40] there's low demand for in between [20:41] mercutio: I'm travelling (at vBSDcon) so not really using my home Internet besides popping online (VPN) from time to time, so I can't really say how IPv6 is working on my VPS, sorry. I'm connected right now to my VPS over IPv6 and it seems fine, but it's a very small test. [20:41] the content providers being able to do > gbe is the current issue [20:41] like i can easily get linux packages at > 80 megabytes/sec [20:41] vbsdcon, fun [20:41] RandalSchwartz: wow, you really ran over a thousand miles? Isn't OR only about 300mi west to east? That's about 4 trips each way across the state. [20:41] but cdn's etc don't really push that fast normally [20:41] m0unds: so far :) [20:42] partially because i think they're not using ssd's [20:42] or otherwise have performance limitations in their caches. [20:42] but akamai, netflix etc are using 10gbe ports these days in general afaik [20:42] brycec: all good [20:43] brycec: it's easier to say something is broken than it's fixed :) [20:44] also latency is more important than bandwidth for web browsing generally given decent bandwidth speeds [20:44] s/speeds/capacity/ [20:44] also latency is more important than bandwidth for web browsing generally given decent bandwidth capacity [20:45] mercutio: very true [20:45] but i'm all for gigabit local-loop networks [20:45] i don't think people will necessarily get gigabit that often [20:45] breakage is obvious, working is obvious, but "fixed"... [20:45] but as long as networks are managed decently it shouldn't do any harm [20:46] i don't think gigabit is enough though :) [20:46] that's why there are business minded types running isps, haha [20:47] haha [20:47] well yeah most new networks are gpon afaik [20:47] which kind of limits 24 houses or such to 2.4 gigabit [20:48] they use time division multiplexing i think [20:48] and encrypt the data [20:48] so you get so many slices out of it [20:49] dynamic reallocation of those slices, means that it should be possible to do 2 gigabit for one customer [20:49] but if everyone goes hard of course it'd have to limit it. [20:49] as long as my isp's network is engineered and managed such that i can use my full pipe and enjoy consistent latency all day, i don't care [20:49] well things shouldn't really be designed so that you can use your full pipe necessarily [20:49] * m0unds shrugs [20:49] just so that you get a decent chunk of the available bandwidth [20:49] and someone else running 100x as many connections as you should get half the bandwidth [20:50] which factors into network management [20:50] yes [20:50] and you get the other half [20:50] rather than them get 99% of the bandwidth [20:50] it's actually pretty common that running more connectoins gives people more bandwidth [20:51] and intelligent queueing etc is kind of necessary to improve that [20:51] but you kind of want intelligent queueing everywhere :) [20:51] and the only place it really happens is near end users generally [20:52] and network neutrality may harm intelligent queueing on interconnections etc. [21:01] For anyone familiar with Ping plugin of collectd, what values have you observed for `ping_droprate`? I've observed only 0 and 1 but I'd rather not rely on that, and unfortunately the documentation doesn't cover the value [21:04] Ping? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0448421658/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0448421658&linkCode=as2&tag=stonehengeconsul&linkId=ANEQ2LFY5RLU5ZFB [21:04] Amazon: "The Story about Ping" [21:04] RandalSchwartz: ++ [21:04] I had that in a blog somewhere, and I had three fans *send me* a copy of that book! [21:04] Gotta love the fans. [21:07] heh [21:07] "Your rabid enthusiasm is appreciated, but slightly misdirected. Consider donating the book to your local library." [21:07] and yes, it's good to be famous. never gonna give that up. :) [21:08] One of them looked like a fairly early edition. [22:04] you could read the soruce kellytk [22:04] s/soruce/source/ [22:04] you could read the source kellytk [22:23] mercutio: http://git.verplant.org/?p=collectd.git;a=blob;f=src/ping.c;h=df2f6da6e6bc69158ebad65e8c47615cd10bfcad;hb=HEAD#l653 makes it clear that it's a float value