#arpnetworks/ 2015-04-07,Tue

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WhoWhatWhen
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m0undsubnt announced a pair of new little edgerouter devices - $49 and $79 respectively [09:30]
bryceclink? [09:31]
m0undstiny little guys
https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-x/?utm_source=Ubiquiti+Newsletter+Subscribers&utm_campaign=118f9d5b9e-EdgeRouter_X_X_SFP_03_01_15&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1c1b02cb37-118f9d5b9e-238482017&mc_cid=118f9d5b9e&mc_eid=d136c500ee
[09:31]
brycecDayuum [09:31]
m0undsMIPS cpus, 130kpps w/64byte pkts
yeah, cool little things
i still wanna try out an ERL, might do one of these instead since i don't think i'd replace my gateway with it and it's 50% of the price of the ERL
[09:31]
pyvpxas soon as you turn on anything, that pps sinks like a cinder block [09:32]
m0undsfor its intended market it's fine [09:32]
if you were looking for something that has full feature support at line rate, you're looking at ASIC powered stuff...doesn't really compare to a $50 or even a $99 box at all
my wife forgot to tell me she was selling a bunch of textbooks back to amazon. i recycled most of my boxes yesterday. DOH
[09:44]
milkiamazon has a buyback program? [09:53]
m0undsyeah, no idea when they started it [09:53]
milkiwhoa
cool
[09:54]
m0undsprepaid shipping as usual
if they won't accept the books you registered to sell back, they'll just ship them back to you
[09:54]
milkiIf the book you want to sell is found not to be in good condition, or is the wrong ISBN, your account will not be credited and the item will be returned to the addresses you select when creating your trade-in.
hmm
yeah...
that might be a free way to ship books to places...
:P
[09:55]
m0undslol
yeah, these things are heavy (medical textbooks)
[09:55]
milkithis is amazing [09:56]
BryceBotThat's what she said!! [09:56]
milkiive pretty much given up on trying to sell my textbooks since they are so old [09:56]
m0undsyeah, my wife tried selling her undergrad stuff right out of college and couldn't find a bookstore that wanted them
but it seems like amazon wanted about 80% of the graduate stuff. i just hope they don't send them back, lol
[09:58]
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brycecNice
I should look into that...
[10:25]
BryceBotThat's what she said!! [10:25]
brycecAt least get a couple of bucks
BryceBot: no
[10:25]
BryceBotOh, okay... I'm sorry. 'I should look into that...' [10:25]
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acf__oh super
8.8.8.8 broke here
[13:28]
mike-burnsYou in Turkey? [13:29]
acf__California [13:29]
mike-burnsDifferent kind of oppression, I guess. [13:29]
acf__:P
acf@vermilion:~$ nslookup google.com 8.8.8.8
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
[13:29]
staticsafemtr pls [13:30]
acf__http://paste.unixcube.org/k/a3c85f
strange. I didn't see packet loss in the mtr earlier
[13:31]
bryceclol mike-burns [13:31]
acf__but DNS still wasn't resolving
like right now
0% packet loss, DNS not resolving
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/7a9c17
8.8.4.4 is also affected
[13:31]
staticsafeprobably hitting a down anycast node [13:33]
acf__it responds to ICMP though
it's also intermittent
[13:33]
brycecIt's responding to me now
but a few minutes ago I also timed out
[13:34]
acf__yea, it's ok for me now too
nvm, down again :P
[13:35]
brycecstill wfm [13:37]
anisfarhanaIt works here, beautiful. [13:42]
mercutioi wouuldn't use 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 as my two dns servers
you could use one of them, and one of something else.
[13:50]
mike-burns4.2.2.1 [13:50]
mercutiopersonally i like the idea of 3 dns servers. [13:51]
mike-burnsYou glutton. [13:51]
mercutiobut normal resolvers have long timeouts. [13:51]
anisfarhana192.168.1.1 and 1.2 ? [13:54]
mercutioit'd be nice if freebsd would shift to openntpd [14:00]
mike-burnsSure but NIH. [14:00]
mercutiothere seems to be another ntp vulnerability on the freebsd security list.
it didn't sound that bad, but hard to know
freebsd didn't make ntpd did they?
[14:01]
mike-burnsWell phk@ announced a re-write. [14:02]
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[14:04]
mercutiooh?
so it's going to compete with openntpd?
[14:08]
mike-burnshttp://phk.freebsd.dk/time/ https://github.com/bsdphk/Ntimed
Yeah.
[14:08]
mercutioahh it seems it may be targeting to be more full featured than openntpd [14:12]
mike-burnsIn the mean time, openntpd is in FBSD ports. [14:13]
anisfarhanaExcuse me guys.
Is it normal I don't understand what both of you talking about?
[14:13]
mike-burnsIt happens to me a lot, so yes. [14:14]
anisfarhanaOk carry on. [14:14]
mike-burnsIs there anything in particular you want to know more about? [14:14]
anisfarhanaI just thought my sickness level increasing..thats all.
Doctor confirmed that i have a disease few weeks ago.
*has confirmed
[14:15]
mercutiontp is network time protocol [14:24]
anisfarhanaI know that at least. [14:24]
mercutioit keeps servers clock's synchronised over the internet. some people have "good clocks" and run servers, which are then connected to by people who have good connectivity
and then users connect to those hosts with good connectivity.
[14:24]
anisfarhanaI had experienced with master clock before. [14:25]
mercutiothe legacy ntp daemon has been around forever, and is a lot of old code.
kind of like sendmail, bind etc.
openntpd is a kind of minimal implementation with security in mind, with security being preferred over feature-set. afaik it doesn't have hardware support for good clocks to feed etc.
[14:25]
anisfarhanaWhy bother using ntp if we know it had problem before? [14:26]
mercutiowell openntpd is a little newer. [14:26]
anisfarhanaWhats wrong with single clock on your machines? [14:27]
mercutioand ntp can be tweaked to be less ... open
normal clocks on computers lose time a lot
[14:27]
anisfarhanaSo people use ntp just because it keep clock sync over the net? [14:27]
mercutioit varies a lot.
ntp is good if you want to have second-level accuracy.
so if you have two servers and look at logs on each, you can correlate times.
[14:27]
anisfarhanaand NTP is useless, if you have stand alone server, with no internet connection? [14:27]
mercutioif you don't use anything your clock may be 10 minutes+ out of sync eaisly.
with things like dsl modems etc that have ntp support they don't even have a hardware clock.
[14:28]
anisfarhanaI see. [14:28]
mercutioso the time will be wrong by months/years/etc. [14:28]
anisfarhanaI don't have any problem with the accuracy of the clock before. [14:28]
mercutiontp can work with a gps clock [14:28]
anisfarhanaI mean without NTP [14:28]
mercutiohttp://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-s-refclk.htm
windows uses ntp
i've had problems with clocks before.
[14:29]
anisfarhanaNot if you untick the options for Internet Server in windows.
You guys are amazing
You can tell a story about clock and NTP like 24 hours non stop.
[14:30]
mercutiowe weren't talkin gabout ntp for 24 hours [14:31]
anisfarhanaYou have your fact, I have my own fact, debate, arguing, go silent,quit, come back, and another issue.
Wonderful.
Another story/issue etc etc
[14:31]
mercutiothat's kind of what IT is like, yes, anis. [14:32]
anisfarhanaBut IT is killing me. [14:33]
mercutiohow so? [14:33]
anisfarhanaIt maybe can kill you too.
So don't tell people in future nobody telling you that IT can kill you.
[14:33]
mercutiolife kills you
it's all part of the cycle.
[14:33]
anisfarhanaCorrect. But my case, IT is killing me.
If not because of IT, i probably can be better.
5.35 AM
Sleep time.
Bye bye mercutio and mike-burns
[14:34]
mike-burnsCiao. [14:37]
anisfarhanaIt was nice talking to both of you today. [14:37]
mercutioin news today, gmail let their secure certificate expire. [14:38]
brycecWhat? The cert I have loaded is good from 25 March through 22 June, 2015. [14:39]
mercutiofor smtp to smtp i think
someone was complaining on outages@ a few days ago
and then someone else said it was fine for them
[14:40]
brycec(I have another tab open to gmail with 19 Mar - 16 June, 2015. Interesting) [14:40]
mercutioi imagine it wasn't expired for that long. [14:40]
brycec(looks like Google rotates certs every three months) [14:40]
mercutioi can't see the emailp, maybe itw asn't outages@
oh it was nanog
[14:41]
brycec(Looks like smtp.gmail.com serves just a single certificate, valid 18 Feb to 31 December 2015)
(not the same as the reported issue above, I know, just observing different certificate practices)
[14:44]
mercutioit was smtp.gmail.com on nanog
these certificates have weird times on it
[14:46]
brycecorly? huh [14:46]
mercutioerr dates
like why 18 feb to 31 dec
i wonder if they're backdating them a bit for people with off clocks
[14:46]
brycecI feel like it's more likely they had that cert all along and it may just not have gotten pushed [14:47]
mercutiohaving lots of ssl errors in general is often due to wrong fclock.
for 9.5 months?
[14:47]
brycecwhy would that be "for 9.5 months"? [14:47]
mercutioit's still a little strange. [14:47]
brycec@date Feb 18 2015 [14:47]
mercutio18 feb to 31 dec [14:47]
BryceBot6 weeks, 6 days, 13 hours, 46 minutes, 25 seconds ago. [Interpreted date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 00:00:00 -0800] [14:47]
mercutiooh that's more than 9.5 months [14:47]
brycecRight. I'm suggesting that they forgot to install the certificate for 6 weeks [14:48]
mercutiothat's 10.5 months. [14:48]
brycecBut the duration is odd [14:48]
mercutiooh i mean duration rather than when it was there [14:48]
brycecYeah, i was responding to your remark about backdating. [14:51]
mercutiooh right [14:52]
damn my level3 test site shifted to ntt :( [15:00]
performance decreased a few days ago.
so it probably shifted then.
[15:08]
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m0undswas that what caused their outage a couple days ago w/smtp? [15:27]
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mercutiom0unds: yeah would have been
although i think it was 3 days ago
[15:42]
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m0undsm0unds shrugs
i don't use smtp, i just got alerts from google about an outage some number of days ago
s/don't/didn't
[16:01]
BryceBot<m0unds> i didn't use smtp, i just got alerts from google about an outage some number of days ago [16:03]
mnathani_smtp as in port 587 / 465 for sending mail ? [16:05]
m0undsyes, i don't use a mail client [16:06]
mnathani_neither do I [16:06]
m0undsdesktop mail client, rather [16:06]
mnathani_all web
for me
[16:06]
m0undsbut in this case, their smtp server was returning an invalid cert - i was able to send mail via gmail interface w/out delays or errors, so i guess it only impacted people sending via smtp.gmail.com or whatever [16:07]
mnathani_http://venturebeat.com/2015/04/04/gmails-ssl-certificate-for-smtp-appears-to-have-expired/ [16:07]
m0undsyeah [16:07]
jbergstroemwhat the fork [16:09]
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mnathani_I am trying to follow http://evilrouters.net/2009/08/21/getting-bgp-routes-into-dynamips-with-video/
with current routing table
but I keep getting: Segmentation fault (core dumped)
command is : zcat bview.20150407.1600.gz.1 | bgpdump -m - > myroutes-april.1
[17:12]
mercutiosounds like bad code :)
i dunno why dynamips is
oh are you just trying to get a full route table?
[17:14]
mnathani_yea
full table
works with code from 2009
bview.20090820.2359.gz
I have that file, but wanted more recent routes
[17:20]
mercutiomaybe you should just get a bgp session?
https://github.com/YuZhang/bgpdump-zy/blob/master/ChangeLog
apparently there were segfaults with empty as paths.
sometimes these things aren't kept current in distributions
[17:30]
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brycecA+ to up_the_irons :)
brycec is finally connected to his company's ARP Metal box :D
Not exactly blown away by SuperMicro's GUI, but meh, as long as it gets the job done.
[17:49]
mercutiobrycec: use ipmi :) [17:55]
brycecError: Unable to establish IPMI v2 / RMCP+ session [17:55]
mercutiouhh it should work
are you using the vpn?
[17:55]
brycecYep
(as evidenced by the fact I'm on the web gui :p)
[17:55]
mercutiotrue :)
try -L USER -I lanplus
[17:55]
brycecipmitool -I lanplus -H IP -U myuser lan print
was what I tried
[17:56]
mercutiohmm [17:56]
brycec(with IP and myuser replaced)
I'm also getting "You don't have permission" popups on certain sections of the web gui, which seems odd.
eg: Maintenance -> System Event Log
Set Session Privilege Level to ADMINISTRATOR failed: Unknown (0x80)
Now I get that ^ from ipmitool
[17:56]
mercutiooh gah [18:00]
brycecbrycec plays with -L <privlvl> Force session privilege level [18:01]
mercutioyeah that's happening to me now too
but -L USER fixes it
[18:01]
brycecheh (I swear I didn't break YOUR Metal box :p) [18:01]
m0undshaha [18:02]
mercutiothe gah was mostly about having a copy of my old key
but yeah it works for me
i just need the -L USER
so try ipmitool -L USER -I lanplus -H IP -U myuser lan print
[18:02]
brycecCan confirm, -L USER gets me no error
Also, "lan print" is blank :/
[18:02]
mercutiosame here
try sensor
[18:03]
brycec(as is "lan print 1") [18:03]
mercutios/lan print/sensor/ [18:03]
BryceBot<brycec> (as is "sensor 1") [18:03]
mercutiowell not that hah [18:03]
brycecsol works :D [18:03]
mercutioyeah
sweet
[18:03]
brycecWhich is really the most critical one :p [18:04]
mercutioit's better than using web
well that and power/reboot
[18:04]
brycecsensor lists several sensors with no values. [18:04]
mercutiohmm it works fine for me [18:04]
brycec"sensor get ..." seems to work, slowly.
At least gives me info about the sensor
[18:05]
mercutiosensor is slow here too
it does a rtt for every line i think
[18:05]
brycec"sensor reading FAN" has no reply though
(but sensor get FAN" dumped info about it.)
[18:06]
mercutioyeah i wouldn't worry about sensor normally
i just find it an easy thing to check ipmi is working
[18:07]
brycecDitto. Though I would like to be able configure alerts to notify me on failure... [18:08]
mercutioyouu can do that inside the machine [18:08]
brycec(that's one of those "You don't have permissions" popups in the web gui) [18:08]
BryceBotThat's what she said!! [18:08]
brycecBryceBot: no [18:08]
BryceBotOh, okay... I'm sorry. 'youu can do that inside the machine' [18:08]
mercutiobrycec: did you go for ssd's? [18:10]
brycecPretty sure it's just the standard 1TB [18:10]
mercutioahh ok [18:10]
brycecthat's what the portal says [18:10]
mercutiojust 1? [18:10]
brycec(I inherited the system)
Looks like the base specs
[18:10]
mercutioahh ok
damn i'm paranoid about not having raid :)
[18:10]
brycecYep based on price, it's the "Starter" level [18:10]
..... (idle for 22mn)
mercutio: Tip for the future, -L OPERATOR [18:32]
mercutiohow's that different from -L USER ? [18:32]
brycecUSER doesn't have permission to "power reset" ;) [18:32]
mercutiooh [18:32]
brycec(It's a notch above USER on the scale) [18:32]
mercutioi can't say i tried power reset :) [18:33]
brycecAnd corresponds with what's listed under "user list" [18:33]
mercutiowell sensor still worked with it, thanks. [18:33]
brycec:P 18:02:55 ⤷ | well that and power/reboot [18:33]
mercutioyeah i've tried it with ipmi in general, just not on arp [18:33]
brycecbrycec goes back to breaking into his own server [18:34]
BryceBotThat's what she said!! [18:34]
mercutioinit=/bin/bash [18:34]
brycecOpenBSD ;) [18:39]
mercutioboot -s [18:39]
brycechehe [18:39]
mercutioi assume everyone uses linux these days for some reason [18:39]
mnathani_brycec: are you enjoying the gigabit connectivity on your METAL box? [18:40]
brycecNot yet
since I have no login on the box :p
[18:40]
mercutioheh
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq8.html#LostPW
[18:40]
mnathani_will there be virtualization on that box? [18:41]
mercutioopenbsd doesn't do virtualisation. [18:42]
bryceclol mercutio thanks, I'm familiar ;) [18:42]
mercutiooh ok [18:42]
brycec*will* there be? Maybe, I might reinstall with FreeBSD or Linux for Qemu/kvm [18:42]
mercutioctrl-alt-del not working by default is a bit irritating.
oh right.
[18:42]
brycecsonofagoddamnmotherfucking... I wish Java would stop trying to use Firefox's proxy settings. *sigh*
(Sorry, that was out of line. Just frustrates me.)
[18:46]
mercutioit does seem strange
i thought things didn't generally use firefox's proxy settings.
[18:50]
brycecLinux desktop running Awesome, so there's no DE for Java to scrape the proxy settings from, so it falls back to using Firefox's for some reason.
I should rephrase that - there's no DE capable of providing proxy settings for Java.
[18:50]
mercutioreading http_proxy is the standard
that's what chrome, wget, etc use for proxy
[18:51]
brycecI only use Firefox when I have to bounce over a SOCKS/SSH proxy/tunnel because FF's proxy settings are quick and easy to twiddle. (Chrome is a command-line switch only, or environment, either way requires restarting Chrome)
But, meh
[18:51]
mercutioyeah i've done similar.
it's kind of annoying that you can't change proxy easily in chrome
[18:52]
m0undsi used to use some extension to do it for me [18:52]
mercutioalthough in my case it's usually to disable proxy [18:52]
m0undshttps://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/proxy-switchysharp/dpplabbmogkhghncfbfdeeokoefdjegm
that's what i used, iirc
[18:53]
mercutiothis looks handy [18:54]
m0undspretty painless, you can set up profiles for different proxies
i used an ssh proxy to evade web filtering at work because it was obnoxious and getting anything whitelisted was awful
[18:54]
brycecThanks for the link
heh
[18:54]
m0undsso i set one up for direct, one for one box, one for another and could just switch it by clicking on the icon and selecting a profile
pretty handy
[18:55]
brycecThat is handy.
Personally, I'm going to stick to using a separate browser. Minimizes my disruption.
[18:55]
mnathani_m0unds: can that proxy switcher work on a per-tab basis? [18:58]
brycecOh man, going through some old authlogs and seeing attempts for "xbmc" and "xbian" really has me worried that people are connecting their RPi's directly to their Internet connection :/
m0unds: if you didn't notice, "SwitchyOmega is the 2.x version of switchysharp and should be used instead."
(Not sure if you still use the extension since you changed jobs)
(That's from the github)
mnathani_: looks like Omega can switch by host/url
[18:58]
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brycechttps://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/proxy-switchyomega/padekgcemlokbadohgkifijomclgjgif third slideshow image
"You can tell SwitchyOmega to switch between proxies automatically through the mighty Switch Profile." (from the quickstart guide)
[19:01]
mnathani_I think I have lost count of the number of new things learnt from this channel [19:02]
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[19:03]
bryceclol
w00t, can confirm it does automatic switching
So it's potentially better than per-tab
[19:03]
mnathani_you mean I can watch netflix now without using Firefox [19:05]
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mnathani_awesome! [19:05]
brycecYes
But I'm sure any proxy-changing extension would have allowed that :p
[19:05]
mercutiohttp://www.open-xchange.com/dovecot
has anyone heard of this?
[19:06]
brycecHeard of Dovecot itself? yes of course. [19:06]
mercutionah open-xchange
apparently powerdns and dovecot are now part of some "open-xchange" company thingy?
[19:06]
brycecI think I heard of it awhile back trying to build an Exchange-compatible alternative, but I might just be confusing very-similar names [19:07]
mnathani_their website is too template like for my liking [19:07]
mercutioheh
i was always impressed by dovecot
it seems on a similar level to postfix to me
[19:08]
mnathani_dovecot is an mta, or imap provider? [19:08]
mercutioit's a imap provider that has a mda [19:08]
brycecmda
(what mercutio said)
(pop too I think)
[19:08]
mercutioyeh pop too. you don't have to use their mda too.
so you can use postfix/procmail/dovecot as the mda bit
like any of them.
procmail is the easiest known example of a mda
postfix/dovecot do other things as well,
basically dovecot adds indexes on top of normal mail, and if you let it deliver mail for you it'll update the indexes automatically
otherwise it'll update indexes when you check your mail.
but it's also got some filtering capabilities with less arcance syntax than procmail.
personally i still use procmail
hmm dovecot has 1000 euro security bounty too
[19:09]
mnathani_brb reboot [19:26]
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m0undsbrycec: didn't notice, but hadn't used it since sept. thx for heads up though because i did still have it on chrome, just disabled
https://twitter.com/davidu/status/585632424626905088
[19:39]
BryceBotTWITTER: Re: The Google DNS attack, we see backscatter in our telescope for requests for shifen[.]com. This graph should be 0. http://t.co/Pcm4dTuN8p (Wed Apr 08 02:37:05 +0000 2015) [19:40]
brycecI added it (Omega) and disabled it, just to have it in case I ever need it :p [19:45]
m0undsworks for me, haha [19:56]
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[20:02]
.... (idle for 15mn)
brycecAw my Metal's gbps connection seems to max out at 100mbps, v4 :/ [20:19]
mercutiothat seems strange
to where?
[20:19]
brycecLink is GbE, but pulling http://www.azurespeed.com/Azure/Download cruised at 11.98MB/s [20:20]
mercutiotry curl http://la.meh.net.nz:24/10m > /dev/null [20:20]
brycecbrycec finds other files [20:20]
mercutioi reckon it should go 800 megabit [20:20]
brycecOoh, CDN is faster, 18MB/s [20:20]
m0undshttp://cachefly.cachefly.net/speedtest/ [20:20]
brycecNext to impossible to gauge GbE speed with a 10M file, but it clocked at 44MB/s [20:21]
mercutiobrycec: it's not impossible :)
there's testfile.zip
for 200mb
[20:21]
brycec15MB from cachefly [20:21]
mercutio44mb/sec is nice. [20:21]
brycec200MB file at 26MB/s [20:22]
mercutiooh you're using openbsd [20:22]
brycecI guess my initial test was just crap [20:22]
mercutioopenbsd's network static isn't great for fast speeds. [20:22]
brycecMeh, it's good enough. And now that I've proven I can exceed 100mbps, I'm happy
Thanks mercutio and m0unds
[20:22]
mercutioif you don't have tcp timestamps enabled on the server, it won't increase it's receive window above 16k [20:23]
m0undssho 'nuff [20:23]
mercutioand it caps window size at 1mb by default in the source iirc
it also increase the window size a bit slow for cubic
fortunately for sending it works pretty good
[20:23]
brycecLooks like OpenBSD is topping out at 75MB/s to mirrors.arp [20:24]
mercutiomirrors can do more than that [20:25]
brycecaka 600mbps [20:25]
mercutiotry downloading the same file again [20:25]
brycec88.11MB/s [20:25]
mercutioyeah that's more like it [20:25]
brycec(good thinking)
704mbps
[20:25]
m0undsnice [20:25]
mercutioi've had 100 million bytes/sec from it before
(i think it was divide by 1000 rather than divide by 1024)
[20:25]
brycecaka 100 mebibytes/s [20:26]
mercutioisn't megabyte/1024 ? [20:26]
brycechm, shoot you've got me second-guessing myself now :p [20:26]
mercutioactually it is /1000 [20:26]
brycecmegabyte = 1000, mebibyte = 1024 [20:26]
mercutiohangon that's weird [20:26]
brycecmebi = binary = 2^X power [20:27]
mercutiobut a kilobyte is 1024 bytes/. [20:27]
brycecshould be 1000 technically
@wa 1 kilobyte to kibibytes
[20:27]
BryceBotconvert 1 kB (kilobyte) to kibibytes;0.9766 KiB (kibibytes);1000 bytes;8 kb (kilobits);8000 bits;7.813 Kib (kibibits);0.007629 Mib (mebibits);information;[information];Words of data on an 8-bit system:, ->1000 words, ->500 longwords;Words of data on a 16-bit system:, ->500 words, ->250 longwords;Words of data on a 32-bit system:, ->250 words, ->125 longwords;Words of data on a 64-bit system:, ->125 words, ->62 longwords [20:27]
brycec1000 ^^ [20:27]
mercutiobut 16 megabytes of ram is 16777216 bytes [20:29]
brycec@wa 16 megabytes to bytes [20:30]
BryceBotSorry, I couldn't reach the backend API. [20:30]
brycec@wa 16 megabytes to bytes
BryceBot: TRY HARDER
[20:30]
BryceBotSorry, I couldn't reach the backend API. [20:30]
mercutioyou broek it? [20:31]
brycecI dunno, not my backend API :p
The lazy can just https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=16+megabytes+to+bytes
Answer: it's 1.6*10^7
so, 16000000000000
(I lost count of 0's)
Hmmm what to install on this box... Vmware? Proxmox? XenServer? FreeBSD? So many choices...
[20:31]
mercutiohas it got more than 8gb of ram? [20:33]
brycecNo [20:33]
mercutiowhat's it going to be used for? [20:33]
brycecIt has no purpose
But the boss doesn't want to give it up just in case we need it
(silly!)
[20:33]
mercutiohaha [20:33]
brycec(we have a spare VPS for that reason too) [20:33]
mercutiolinux/kvm then [20:33]
brycecaka Proxmox [20:34]
mercutioit means if you do want to use it
you can just copy an image over etc
[20:34]
brycecI personally <3 Proxmox, but I'm open-minded [20:34]
mercutiohaven't used it [20:34]
brycecmeh I can do the same with Vmware or FreeBSD (to greater or lesser extends) [20:34]
mercutioi use xen [20:34]
brycec*extents [20:34]
mercutiovmware on 8gb ram? [20:35]
brycecbrycec shrugs
I'm sure it would install >.>
[20:35]
mercutiowell youu need a raid controller if you want to do raid with it [20:35]
brycecBut I'm fairly inexperienced when it comes to vmware [20:35]
mercutioor you need to do the virtual machine that acts as storage
yeah it'd install
[20:35]
brycecI'm sure I can't sell the boss on this either, but perhaps I could free up the VPS and move them all over
brycec thinks it's silly to pay for 3 VPS *and* Metal
[20:36]
mercutioyeah shift to 1 vps + metal maybe [20:36]
brycecWhat reason is there to keep any vps at that point? just reducing spof? [20:37]
mercutioyeah
well the metal doesn't even have raid :)
depends how much you're storing, but restore time in the case of hard-disk failure could be quite long
[20:37]
brycecGood points [20:38]
mercutioso for anymthing critical you may want to have a copy locally
or be able to use arp's backup stfuf
and pull it back
[20:38]
brycecIndeed [20:38]
mercutiowhat about if youu got rid of 2 vps's, made the 3rd vps bigger, and got another hard-disk?
it's probably about the same cost
[20:39]
brycecPerhaps, though we're pretty good on VPS sizing now (no need to upgrade)
I am looking at upgrades for metal (ssd, add'l drives, etc)
[20:39]
mercutiomaybe you can ugprade to 16gb at the same time?
ahh ok
i thought you may want to be able to run all 3 vps's worth of stuff on one vps.
[20:39]
brycecWould be nice to have 4*256GB SSD, but I can't justify doubling (actually, more than) the monthly cost [20:40]
mercutioi don't thiink you can do more than 2 hard-drives
unless you get one of the 1u servers
[20:40]
brycechttps://www.arpnetworks.com/dedicated says "Max 4" [20:40]
mercutioyeah
but i don't think you can upgrade if you're on a blade past 2.
that's for new orders..
[20:40]
brycec(One VPS is completely unused right now, so I only have to worry about 2 VPS, and they could easily be consolidated)
Hm, good to know, something to keep in mind and ask Garry later
[20:41]
mercutioi have 3 disks on arp metal
but it was provisioned that way from the start.
it's a bit weird.
[20:41]
brycecI'm still not a fan of ARP's drive pricing. In a few months, I've paid enough to have bought the hdd in the first place :/ [20:42]
mercutioi imagine that this may change soon
hard-disks use lots of power too
well about 7 watts
constantly
damn where's a quiuck calculator for that
looks like power costs around 22c kwh there
which seems cheap
[20:42]
brycecSSD too, although it's a bit less egregious :p takes about 6mos to pay off one of those. [20:43]
mercutiowell cehaper than i thoughjt it'd be
it's actually the same everywhere you know :)
you make your money on the upgrades
you could go dedicated.
ok it looks like $1/month
so yeah power isn't that bad
but i forgot to margin in power supply loss
also hard-disks can fail, and that means someone replacing the hard-disk.
[20:44]
RandalSchwartzI've heard that SSD and hard disk are now similar in MTBF [20:47]
mercutiohard-disk failure rates aren't really going down
the higher density seems to be puushing failure rates up a little even
and they seem to fail quicker when they fail now :(
like if you get a single sector not able to be read you should replace a drive asap
whereas it used to be that it'd work for a few months probably
[20:48]
brycecI've seen the same - about equal. SSD can last a bit longer too. [20:50]
mercutioa lot of that's to do with ecc though
as you only get to see errors when it goes above a certain point.
i've seen more "bugs" with ssd's.
but i've had more failures with hard-disks
like ssd's that'll just stop reading, or go really slow or such
[20:50]
brycecDitto. [20:52]
mercutioone thing i've noticed is more and more of a shift to 2.5" hard-disks.
and 300gb sas drives vs 256gb ssd's, at 2.5" makes ssd's seem ilke quite a nice idea.
and laptop drives aren't really that great.
you can do about twice as many 2.5" drives as 3.5" drives in the same footprint.
and even 2.5" sas drives seem tiny
they weigh a lot more than ssd's though
[20:55]
............. (idle for 1h0mn)
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9145/samsung-sm951-pcie-ssd-now-available
the 128mb ssd is quite affordable. especially when you consider it does 2000mb/sec read speed.
[21:58]

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