[01:07] *** RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [14:28] @weather yyz [14:28] Toronto-Pearson International, Ontario: Mostly Cloudy ☁ 39°F (4°C), Humidity: 42%, Wind: From the West at 21 MPH Gusting to 28 MPH -- For more details including the forecast and almanac, see http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=43.67722321,-79.63055420 or re-request this with: @weather -v yyz [14:45] i thought winter would be over by now? [17:52] to run multicast over the internet, does traffic need to be encapsulated by a GRE Tunnel or similar? [17:52] i think so [17:52] there were things like mbone before [17:52] that you could be a part of, but i doubt that even exists anymore [17:53] i really wish multicast took off more [17:53] some tv stuff is using it [17:53] but it's all in networks where people control the whole thing afaik [17:53] over private links though [17:54] not across public internet [17:54] yeh within their private network [17:54] i think usually people have a multicast streaming server [17:54] that broadcasts across their network, and people opt-in/opt-out [17:54] IPTV stuff usually [17:54] That's what she said!! [17:55] static: yeh [17:55] iptv is kind of the biggest use case for it [17:55] when I was in the UAE, the TV services was provided over a ethernet connection to the box, also FTTH [17:56] afaik the internet was still ADSL [17:56] how fast was the connection? [17:56] the internet? 1mbit/1mbit, internet is still expensive over there [17:56] static: they may be doing it bit by bit [17:57] 1 megabit wow [17:57] cloudflare had something on their blog about "shared dictionaries" [17:57] for compression. google's been doing per-site dictionaries for ages. [17:58] but the idea is that you have one dictionary with common html elements in it etc, and get much higher compression. [17:58] i really reckon if people are going to have 1 megabit connections etc that kind of thing would really help. [17:58] well 1Mbps - http://www.etisalat.ae/en/personal/internet/services/broadband/internet-services-packages.jsp [17:58] 259 United Arab Emirates Dirham equals [17:59] 70.52 US Dollar [17:59] wow unlimited transfer [17:59] so yeah [17:59] yeah it's the wrong attitude [17:59] if you're going to cap people [17:59] it's better to have download limits and higher speeds [17:59] i wonder why speed is so limited [17:59] from what i understand india is pretty bad for internet speeds, like worse than that. [18:00] but uae is much richer than india [18:00] do they still proxy all http / https traffic staticsafe [18:00] ? [18:00] mnathani_: yeah, i was using a VPN while I was there [18:00] i wonder where their traffic goes [18:00] is it via turkey? [18:00] I had dialup while I lived there [18:00] France usually [18:00] That's what she said!! [18:01] or via egypt [18:01] but that was pre 2000 [18:01] Renesys has some slides on connectivity in the middle eawst [18:01] interestingly enough they peer with ARP Networks [18:01] mnathani_: when I left the UAE I had dialup connectivity [18:01] it has to get to france somehow :) [18:01] Etisalat was just starting their DSL rollout [18:02] so you both used to live in uae? [18:02] and have multi gigabit presense at AMS-IX [18:02] I grew up there [18:02] yeah born there, moved when I was about 13 [18:02] mnathani_: were you born there? [18:02] was not [18:02] born in Karachi, Pakistan [18:02] did you two know each other while you were there? [18:02] but moved there very shortly [18:02] nope [18:03] just coincidental [18:03] it wasn't so rich when you lived there was it? [18:04] felt richer than most parts of North America [18:04] brigher lighting at nights for the roads [18:04] newer malls [18:04] heh i only seen the US on tv [18:04] inequality is very evident though [18:04] so it's hard to know what it's like to live there [18:04] but it seemed that california was reasonbly well to do [18:05] and that a lot of the middle of the US wasn't so well off [18:05] example - unless you are of local descent, you can't get citizenship even if you were born there [18:05] i just found out obama was from kenya [18:05] well his father was [18:05] i'm surprised the US allowed him to be president [18:06] he was born in Hawaii [18:06] which makes him a US citizen [18:06] yeah but his fatherw as from kenya? [18:06] or something. [18:06] like it's "recent immigrant" [18:06] America's way of doing nationality (born there = American) is so very different from everywhere else in the world. [18:06] ... it's one of the things I miss, as an expat. [18:06] its similar in Canada [18:07] Makes sense. [18:07] i think it's similar here too [18:07] two ways to get citizenship in Canada - be born here or naturalization [18:08] But are you socially and colloquially considered Canadian, even as an immigrant (or child of an immigrant)? [18:08] yep [18:08] That's the thing I miss the most. [18:08] Canada is a nation of immigrants :P [18:08] It makes sense for N America, yeah. [18:09] the whole world is full of immigrants [18:09] i don't think there's any country that doesn't have any :) [18:09] There are many that wishes they didn't ... [18:10] i reckon it's weird how different different parts of the US sound. [18:11] although most americans i meet in real life have more accent than people on tv [18:11] i like Canada :) [18:12] I had to drop my accent when I moved from the US; too few people understood me. [18:12] i can't even get a good idea of canada from tv :/ [18:12] heh [18:12] mike: what part were you from? [18:12] Boston. [18:12] yeah [18:12] Bawstun. [18:12] california is easier to understand [18:13] i think because more tv comes from there? [18:13] and fast talk speed with less uhh definition [18:13] Canada has a bit of an identity problem being so close to the US. which is why CRTC has stuff like % Canadian content rules [18:13] I recommend The Red Green Show. ... it's basically all I know about Canada. [18:14] Oh and Strange Brew. [18:14] all i know about canada is it snows and they have bears [18:15] and it's like alaska [18:15] bears are a lot more up north :P [18:15] ain't gonna see bears in Toronto [18:15] oh ok [18:15] Apparently Vancouver is one of the most well-designed, happiest cities. [18:15] mike-burns: expensive to live in though [18:15] its kinda has a SF like problem [18:15] real estate is expensive [18:16] all the most popular cities in the world are expensive to live in [18:16] there's a list somewhere [18:16] The SF problem is rather crazy and out of hand. Massive inequality there. [18:16] yeah i heard [18:16] on this list my city is 10th [18:16] I saw some list with my city as 6th. [18:17] vancouver is 3rd [18:17] calgary was 6th on this list [18:17] a lot of people buy houses in the suburbs nowadays cause its cheaper [18:17] vienna, austria is 2nd [18:17] it's weird, all the roofs look identical [18:18] static: my friend bought a house in santa clara and it didn't look as bad as i thought it was. [18:18] Do you have a link to this list? [18:18] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/pictures/9477990/The-worlds-10-best-cities-to-live-in.html?frame=2311068 [18:18] there wer way too many australian cities [18:19] i was actually surprised hwo cheap US was for housing compared to NZ.. [18:19] Huh; everyone I know who has lived in (or even visited) Auckland, NZ, has disliked it. [18:19] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Toronto_Area#/media/File:Greater_toronto_area_map.svg suburbs basically mean outside of the "City of Toronto" area [18:19] Greater Toronto Area :: The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) is a metropolitan area in Canada. At the 2011 census, it had a population of 6,054,191, and the census metropolitan area had a population of 5,583,064. The Greater Toronto Area is defined as the central city of Toronto, and the four regional municipalities that surround it: Durham, Halton, Peel, and York. The regional span of the Greater Toronto Area is sometimes extended to include the... [18:19] like there are heaps of large houses for cheap [18:19] Yeah, the US is a cheap place overall. [18:19] oh vancouver just hit a million average? [18:20] i suuppose that's quite expensive, but it's probably mean price [18:20] when people say average they usually use mean, and a few expensive houses will lift the average. [18:23] people used to measure house prices by how many years you'd need to work at an average pay. [18:24] and that here has increased heaps. [18:24] like it looked like in the US you could get houses for 10 years of work (of cousre you need to spend money to live etc) [18:25] if you don't want to live somewhere expensive.. [18:25] whereas here it's more like 20 years. [18:25] and there's this big concern over people having long mortgages and wanting to buy houses when they're older, as they bump into retirement etc. [18:25] like if you're 40 and want to take out a 30 year mortgage, the bank wouldn't really want to do that. [18:26] and so the biggest risk is that house ownership goes down, and a few people own all the property and charge more and more money [18:27] so vancouver agverage income seems to be at 71,140/year [18:27] Which currency? [18:27] and average house prices were 1.4 million i think? so that's around 20 years. [18:27] it's .ca so i assume cad$ [18:27] Ah. [18:28] it's 2012 too. [18:28] but you can't live on nothing [18:28] Depends on the social safety nets. [18:28] and you pay a lot of interest on a 30 year mortgage. [18:29] here it's only $764,000 average house price. [18:30] and that's nzd$ [18:30] which is around $550,000 usd i think [18:30] so it's around half the price for a house as vancouver. [18:30] Average income is weird, depending on the level of socialism. [18:30] yeah [18:30] it's really hard to compare. [18:31] like you pay high taxes here. [18:31] It's probably higher here. [18:31] i think it's 38% above $48,000/year here [18:31] 55% here. [18:31] plus gst of 15% on purchases. [18:32] oh tax rates went down [18:32] @exch 764000 NZD USD [18:32] 764000 NZD -> 579714.98358359 USD (as of Sat, 04 Apr 2015 18:01:01 -0700) [18:34] 55% tax sounds crazy. [18:34] do you have taxes on petrol, alcohol etc.? [18:35] Crazy-high taxes on alcohol. [18:36] i have no idea how much tax we pay on alcohol, but beer prices have been going up... [18:36] OTOH: free/paid university, great city planning, decent metro system, healthcare obviously, other good stuff I'm sure. [18:36] 55% puts it in the region of norway, sweden etc doens't it? [18:37] You guessed it! I live in Sweden. [18:37] ahh [18:37] i think norway is slightly higher [18:37] Yeah. [18:38] i wouldn't mind living somewhere like sweden i reckon [18:38] It's a great place to live. [18:38] it's not the easiest place to move to though [18:39] Easier than the US. [18:39] so you can get visa's etc easy? [18:39] Well ... easier than a non-American getting a US visa. [18:39] and get jobs knowing only english? [18:40] It took me six months, but part of that was because the country goes on vacation during June and July. [18:40] my friend managed to get visa to the US reasonably eaisly. [18:40] Yup, just English is fine, especially in tech. [18:40] well it seemed like he did [18:40] he just shifted countries within the same company [18:40] L1 visa, perhaps. [18:40] i think that is easier :) [18:41] One of my employees just got into the US via L1 visa. Pain in the ass from the lawyer/management side, but more guaranteed than the normal ones. [18:41] ahh ok [18:41] are places like sweden easy to get by with only knowing english? [18:42] http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/AI-CE671_CENGLI_G_20131106085709.jpg [18:42] Trivial. [18:42] i kind of thought it'd be cool to live somewhere like argentina [18:42] but i don't know spanish [18:42] i dunno how easy it'd be to get a job there. [18:43] Countries that speak Spanish, German, or French tend to keep speaking those languages. [18:43] But Swedish ... no one here really expects immigrants to speak anything but English. [18:43] ahh, interesting. [18:44] IT is on the labour shortage list :) [18:45] We seriously need people with tech work experience here. [18:45] seems surprising [18:45] i thought there were lots of tech type people there [18:45] Really great education system -> people go to school forever -> I interview 30-somethings with no work experience. [18:46] ahh ok i have no education but work experience :/ [18:46] how can you be 30-something with no work experience [18:46] Yeah, me too. [18:46] that's shocking [18:46] * mercutio is 30-something [18:48] Citizens of non-EU countries must apply for a work permit in order to work in Sweden. [18:48] In order to receive a work permit, you must have received an official offer of employment from a Swedish employer. [18:48] so that's like the US isn't it? [18:48] It is not possible to receive a work permit in order to come to Sweden to look for work. [18:49] apparently if i was under 30 i could do working holiday there [18:49] Yes, but the US has quotas that are quickly filled. [18:49] ahh [18:49] Also, it's really, really hard to get into the US without a degree. [18:50] most jobs here are advertised that you need to have a visa before getting the job [18:50] ahh [18:51] .net .net .net .. [18:51] argh [18:51] "Proficient in Swedish or willing to learn. [18:52] http://swedishstartupspace.com/job-board/ - any of these might be more fun. [18:53] wow these job adverts look way better [18:53] and so casual [18:54] That job board is run by an Aussie expat. [18:55] they're all in stockholm [18:55] Yup. [18:55] so does he live there? and talk with them all? [18:55] Yes, and yes. [18:55] He runs a startup in Sthlm. [18:56] so much talk of amazon :/ [18:56] Big American companies! [18:57] i'm not actually finding anything i want to apply for :/ [18:57] Maybe it's not to be. [18:58] tbh, i'd like to work at an isp or something in south america :) [18:58] Good luck. [18:58] haha [18:58] yeah i know it'd be hard to do [18:58] 500Mbps of download speed [18:58] - 50Mbps of upload speed [18:58] - Unlimited data [18:58] http://www.etisalat.ae/en/personal/elife/bundles/tripleplay-packages.jsp [18:58] but i generally prefer improving things rather than doing new things. [18:59] @wa 500 aed to cad [18:59] not into mobile apps etc. [18:59] convert د.إ500 (UAE dirhams) to Canadian dollars;C$169.95 (Canadian dollars);$136.14 (US dollars) (at current quoted rate);, 1-year minimum->C$144.77 (July 2, 2014->9 months ago), 1-year maximum->C$174.24 (March 16, 2015->19 days ago), 1-year average->C$155.17 (annualized volatility: 6.3%) [18:59] @wa 5000 aed to cad [18:59] convert د.إ5000 (UAE dirhams) to Canadian dollars;C$1699.55 (Canadian dollars);$1361.38 (US dollars) (at current quoted rate);, 1-year minimum->C$1447.69 (July 2, 2014->9 months ago), 1-year maximum->C$1742.35 (March 16, 2015->19 days ago), 1-year average->C$1551.74 (annualized volatility: 6.3%) [19:00] mnathani_: that sounds better. [19:01] expensive though [19:01] yeah [19:01] but it's only twice as expensive as 1 megabit isnt' it? [19:01] the 500 was a type [19:01] s/type/typo [19:01] the 500 was a typo [19:01] oh it's 5000? [19:01] it is actually 5000 AED [19:01] yea [19:01] ouch [19:02] thats more than my rent in Canada [19:02] only for oil barons? [19:03] those guys probably get a massive discount too [19:03] hangon mike-burns if you're in sweden, isnt' it the middle of the night? [19:03] sometimes I wonder about you: mercutio, you are in here at all sorts of hours [19:03] mnathani_: haha [19:03] i was in here at 4 am the other day [19:03] Yeah, it's 4am. [19:03] but i'm not normally. [19:03] Hackers gotta hack. [19:03] perhaps mercutiois more than one person sharing the handle [19:04] mnathani_: it's 2 pm here right now [19:04] that a sane hour [19:04] although we just changed back to standard time from daylight saving today. [19:05] so it feels like 3pm [19:12] amazon's hiring process for AWS is pretty fun [19:12] what do they do? [19:12] their work/life balance is awful though [19:12] my work/life balance is terrible [19:13] i think it's pretty common with IT [19:13] based on guys i know who interviewed for stuff w/aws in the us - they do phone interviews, then fly you to seattle and put you up in a hotel and then do a campus tour and really involved engineering interviews [19:13] amazon is nextlevel bad [19:14] 7 day work weeks, often 60-80hrs, etc [19:14] oh [19:14] that sucks. [19:14] i'm a fan of the 35 hour working week. [19:14] good employer, cool tech, cool gig, great pay and benefits, but the hours are sort of bad [19:14] i reckon people are less productive if they work too many hours. [19:14] both guys declined their respective offers (one was AWS engineering, can't remember what my other buddy interviewed for) [19:15] used it as a learning experience because the last interview had lots of really technically involved stuff that sort of showed them what they need to work on [19:17] and now, planetside time [19:19] i think a lot of those places go for qualifications over experience [19:19] and so they end up with a lot of people with bright ideas, with less grounding. [20:18] some do, can say based on amazon that they're more interested in people w/experience + people who actually understand what they're doing [20:19] oh that's good [20:20] i've gotten lots of contract stuff based on businesses who hired solely based on education or certs and not experience [20:21] not to say there's anythign wrong with either of those things, but it shouldn't be the only reason for hiring someone unless you're going to help them out [20:22] contract stuff here has a high word-of-mouth factor [20:22] actually IT in general does. [20:22] yeah, same here [20:22] well i don't think it does in more corporate/government areas. [20:23] depends [20:23] ahh ok [20:23] i've done contract network stuff for several bigger companies (2000+ employees) and tribal government [20:23] but for the kind of jobs mike-burns listed high word of mouth [20:23] lots of defense related contract work here in abq too, because NM has 2 national nuclear labs and 3 airforce bases [20:24] so you've got security clearance? [20:24] not anymore [20:24] but you had to get it? [20:24] yep, contractor sponsored it [20:24] cool. [20:25] contract ended, didn't have any additional stuff lined up so it expired [22:16] A buddy of mine works at Amazon - they tend to expect you available 7 days a week, regardless of vacation, etc. Granted, that will vary by team. [22:16] (I should clarify, works in AWS) [22:21] available as in "ready to work" or "to respond to cellphone" [22:24] The latter [22:24] I know this because we were vacationing together, out of the country, but he was still expected to be available for phone and fixing things (computer+internet) [22:24] Which is a huge drag on things like marriage and family [22:26] yeah [22:26] it's pretty common in smaller companies/businesses [22:26] but aws should be big enough that they can get past that [22:27] heh exactly [22:28] yea, that sort of availability/expectation is absolutely a drag (part of why i left the job i used to work) [22:30] i don't mind it myself [22:31] most of the time. [22:31] it sucks when things break a lot, but as long as you can make things break less .. [22:33] Even so, there are instances out of your hands, eg. the boss saying "Blah, make such-and-such feature by Friday!" [22:34] brycec: that's also not necessarily good :) [22:50] brycec: actually i've found people vary in their willingness to work extra hours whether or not their boss says to [22:50] some people will just set boundaries [22:50] more often older poeple with families etc. [22:51] And the elasticity of the workplace varies too - some won't tolerate that :P (not a comment on AWS, because I don't know) [22:53] depends if it's all of the time etc too