what works better for using IMAP with Fastmail? Thunderbird or OperaMail
isn't that like asking if emacs or vim is better?
they both should work fine, and it should be personal preference.
everyone knows that vim is better :-)
I see it more like "which web browsers is better" since we're comparing clients
Brycebot: which do you prefer?
:)
@google fastmail or thunderbird
3,370 total results returned for 'fastmail or thunderbird', here's 3
How to set up Thunderbird | FastMail (https://www.fastmail.com/help/clients/thunderbird.html) The instructions and screenshots in this setup guide are for the latest version of  Thunderbird, which you can download for free for Windows, Mac OS X or Linux.
Fastmail's sent folder doesn't appear on IMAP | Thunderbird Support ... (https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1017517) Aug 29, 2014 ... Hi, I've just setup Thunderbird to connect to Fastmail using IMAP. The inbox  synchronizes, but TB doesn't recognize Fastmail's sent folder.
Using FastMail: A Primer - Tuts+ Computer Skills Tutorial (http://computers.tutsplus.com/tutorials/using-fastmail-a-primer--cms-21064) May 19, 2014 ... Fastmail with Thunderbird Setting up FastMail on your PC. Click Done when you' re finished., and Thunderbird will fetch your mail for you.
silly me
I messed up the terms
you mean operamail or thunderbird right
@google operamail vs thunderbird
Searching for 'opera mail vs thunderbird' instead.
24,500 total results returned for 'opera mail vs thunderbird', here's 3
Thunderbird vs Opera Mail - Email Clients Comparison (http://email-clients.softwareinsider.com/compare/2-9/Thunderbird-vs-Opera-Mail) Compare Email Clients: Thunderbird vs Opera Mail. In this side by side  comparison, find features which are most important for you to make the best  decision.
Outlook Alternatives: 5 Other Mail Management Options (https://blog.udemy.com/outlook-alternatives/) Feb 11, 2014 ... Thunderbird is a somewhat stripped down version of Outlook, but it can ... You  can even send e-cards on special occasions, like Christmas or ... If you're looking  for a simple email client, then Opera Mail might be right for you.
Opera Mail review: Email client is a blast from the past | Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/article/2064515/opera-mail-review-email-client-is-a-blast-from-the-past.html) Nov 22, 2013 ... Opera Mail reminds me of Mozilla's open-source Thunderbird—with a ... Modern  email clients often make importing or creating accounts a snap ...
lol mnathani_
Why not Evolution? Or balsa? Or _____...?
mutt!
mutt supports imap.
and it works with vim, too.
I ride the short bus
lol
that is windows
So why not Outlook? Or whatever Mail client is builtin?
outlook express?
Outlook is a resource hog
I think it changed though
but works well with Exchange
ram is cheap
I think they have some mail app built in too
mercutio: I am running an i7 Windows system with 24 gigs of RAM
and still running out of ram?
i've been running out of ram with 16gb recently actually
CPU is more precious than RAM
can't tolerate Outlook taking up a lot of CPU cycles constantly
oh i didn't know it'd use lots of cpu
is this outlook or outlook express?
memory is at 48% usage
Outlook 2014
s/2014/2013
<mnathani_> Outlook 2013
Outlook Express is not an option with Windows 8
the Windows 8 equivalent to a free mail app is one of their metro style apps
ie: not a desktop application, more like a tablet one
oh i didn't realise that was all you could do
actually i seem to remember it changed to windows live mail?
which tried to download msn
so i must be a bit out of date
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows-8/mail-app-tutorial
300ms latency to my VPS via v6, ouch.
Others seeing terrible v6 performance?
Negatory
Seems to originate at lax2.he.net
mhoran: my v6 tunnel is down
probably semi-related
lax1.he.net seems fine.
Something in that DC it seems.
wow
tracing to www.he.net gives 145 msec pings
oh it went down to 10 msec
Yikes.
Yeah it's all over the place but averaging super high for me.
yeah need to check form womehwere else really
but it looks like he.net lax to fremotn is screwed from trace from arp
and it's fine from my dallas ipv6 connected test host
but it's going over gtt/ntt
oh but www.he.net is screwed from my dallas test host.
mercutio: do you know of any decent east coast vps with v6 providers?
mnathani_: nope
my test host is vultr :/
but it's far from decent
ipv6 isn't even working in the uk location for some unknown reason
and they're doing silly things like having a huge broadcast network
err broadcast domain
16:33:06.618406 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.150 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46
16:33:06.618703 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.151 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46
16:33:06.618964 ARP, Request who-has 104.156.237.153 tell 104.156.237.1, length 46
so there's all this crap coming through constantly
yikes.
i don't know a lot about east coast stuff
considering it's even further away from me.  but from what i do know, it seems virgnia and atlanta  seem like popular spots
new york seems expensive, florida is kind of bad routing wise.
but there seem to be more options with chicago, dallas, if you want to get in between
but yeah i'm over 10,000 miles away i think
ok 10,000 km from los angeles
there was talking of arp doing an east coast location, i'd hav emore faith in that
I'd love an East coast location.
NYC preferably. :)
i think nyc colo space is expensive
you may be able to get NJ ..
Yeah. One of the major DCs is just Google now. There may still be a few colos in there but they (Google) took over a former employer's rack so they could build an elevator.
I'm sure there's space in Brooklyn, and there's space in Newark.
Both pretty decent. Perhaps Newark more so.
And by rack, I mean cage.
can anyone remember where the arp east coast location was to be?
i expect there's quite a lot of work involved in setting up a new location though
as well as money.
coresite have data centers in north virginia, new york, and boston
http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/coresite-reality-acquires-new-jersey-building-to-convert-into-data-center
I worked with coresite in Boston. They've a nice datacenter.
But I have no idea where the proposed location was.
there may not have been a location in mind
Though I tried to convince up_the_irons multiple times that NYC was a good option. :)
and that you'd do remote hands?
Absolutely!
what'd he say?
it seems he was considering NY, VA, FL?
PR would be good. :)
where is PR?
oh
puerto rico?
Yeah I'd totally do remote hands for PR. :p
I've even got a plane to get me there!
well chat logs did say he'd like to do it somewhere he wouldn't mind visiting for a few days.
mercutio: Logs show we left it at 'ah cool'. Then started talking about my exciting new job.
Whew, that was a while ago!
Wasn't even using weechat yet.
mhoran: heh.
Still the irssi days.
well iw as finding stuff from 2013.
Ah this is even older. So maybe he's gotten more thoughts on that.
now if he'll come in :)
I do miss spending time in the datacenter. But I also like programming as my day job.
i hate datacenters myself.
That's what she said!!
but if things are setup right you shouldn't have to spend much time in there.
It's true.
I don't mean remote hands so much as getting things set up and such.
It's fun.
I agree that regularly spending time in the DC is probably not a good sign.
what's not so fun is having to go to data centres in peak traffic.
Well, that's not so bad in NYC. :)
peak internet, or physical? :)
But I agree.
ahh.
randal: physical
The Coresite location in Boston could be a pain to get to.
It wasn't even In Boston. Charlestown.
There was a subway and you could walk a mile and a half or take a crappy bus that usually didn't show up on time.
lots of data centers are a bit further out to save money.
There is a data center in downtown Boston that's quite nice, but it is extremely overpriced and they are very greedy.
I would imagine much of NYC is the same.
well i think you generally pay like 25% more for central
or even more
and convenience isn't necesasrily better if you don't live centrally
Well there is lots of competition here.
that doesn't bring real estate prices down
i think dallas was cheap because of power too.
Power is cheaper here than Boston, actually.
you have cheaper power than we have here
Though they are proposing a rate hike for next year.
chicago is cheap for power
http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a
Chicago is pretty all right.
But I need to live on a coast.
And I hate the west coast.
So NYC it is.
why not florida?
when i was looking at where i'd want to live if i lived in US i was thinking like tampa or something
Florida is terrible. Unelss you're retired.
Because we can all agree that Florida is a terrible place to live.
what's terrible about it?
I don't like one season all the time (hence my hatred of SF.)
it rains though?
so it's not as bad :)
But also, it's filled with transients, or old people, is boring, is just humid all the time, and nobody actually wants to visit you.
what about seattle?
Honestly, I'd take Phoenix (Arizona, desert) over Florida any day.
I've never been, but I'd like to go.
They've a lot of float planes there, I like that.
it's kind of weird seeing how dry most of the US looks.
Seattle is interesting
even when water is in the picture it still looks dry.
and i found california seemed to look disturbingly pristine.
in an artifical way.
it's hard to find out what somewhere is like on the internet though
Google Streetview, Reddit, Wikitravel...
(and more)
i'd rather travel sometime :)
When feasible, absolutely. And the above resources (among others) help plan that too
if i went to the US i would have to go to california
re: disturbingly pristine, I would not say that about San Francisco!
cos all the flights go through there anyway.
mhoran: my friend lives in santa clara.
which is probably on the worse side of that.
houses are even more expensive than here it seems!
Santa Clara aint too bad...
yeah he can cycle to work apparently
apparentyl residential internet sucks there though
choice between comcast, and at&t.  and comcast has congestion.
s/there/in the US/
<mercutio> apparentyl residential internet sucks in the US though
oh that's normal is it ?
Yes
it always surprises me when people live in "internet cities" and have bad internet
well tech cities
it really shouldn't surprise me, it seems pretty common.
For starters, tech cities were built before tech was tech
and they usually have money so people don't want to dig up the roads.
apparently people are much less keen to dig up roads in richer areas.
but that's also partially to do with apparently poorer people spend more on cable tv.
it is kind of amusing when you see that countries like bulgaria have fast cheap internet
It can also be argued that those countries didn't start until later, so they started with better "tech"
10 euro to nzd
oh oops
how do i tell brycebot to do it again?
@exch 10 EUR NZD
10 EUR -> 11.404758293255 USD -> 15.131468351225 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)
yeah so that's how much cable internet costs apparently.
daily?
monthly
in bulgaria.
That's what she said!!
@exch 70 USD NZD
70 USD -> 92.87376 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)
I pay that monthly for ~120mbps
@exch 7.95 leva nzd
mercutio, I'm sorry, I couldn't make sense of your query. Usage Examples: 900 USD to SEK, 1500 CAD to AUD
Which frankly is significantly improved over years past.
@exch 7.95 bgn nzd
7.95 BGN -> 4.6334287605957 USD -> 6.147485009838 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)
@exch 1 CAD USD
1 CAD -> 0.80653226612984 USD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)
ugh still quite bad
http://www.mtel.bg/promocionalna-oferta-fix-internet
chrome's translate is necessary
not if you earn in USD but spend in CAD
@exch 1 USD CAD
1 USD -> 1.239876 CAD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)
so it's $6.14 for 2 years.
anot much more for 50 megabit
but quite a bit more for 100
@exch 18.45 bgn to nzd
18.45 BGN -> 10.753051651948 USD -> 14.266804834152 NZD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)
well that's 100 megabit pricing.
@exch 1 nzd to usd
1 NZD -> 0.75371127431473 USD (as of Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:01:01 -0800)
this has been going up and down recently.
BryceBot: 120 megabit, nice :)
huh?
brycec: do you get 120 megabit regularly?
i tab complted. :)
mercutio: It's what Comcast offers here.
http://www.comcast.com/internet-service.html
yeh it's not that cheap here
$30 for up to 25 megabit?
that sounds good
25mbps isn't listed on that Comcast page, not for me anyways
105 megabit for $45?
weird
That's promo pricing
That's what she said!!
$79/mo normally
i.e. scroll down
i see $78.95/mo for 105 megabit
so you're on 105 megabit?
Yes
And as is often the case, I get speeds a bit better than that.
but it is rate limited to like 120?
i see.
what upload speed?
Hard to say. That's just the speed my laptop got on speedtest
mercutio: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/4064904065
(I'd provide an updated test, but I'm connected through a 100mbps link at the moment)
do you have that burst thing enabled?
I have no idea what you're talking about
comcast do a weird burst thing where you get 5 seconds or something of burst speed
i can't rmemeber how much it is
"powerboost"
oh it's more than 5 seconds, too.
(Current speedtest through a 100mbps link http://www.speedtest.net/result/4151329009.png )
it's called comcast blast now apparently
and it's on upload and download
fwiw, I can sustain those speeds for long durations
yeah
so you don't have blast
...I do have Blast. That's the name of the plan.
oh
hmm
their web site is really confusing
(Don't tell me what I have ;P I know what I have.)
i thought i got it, but no, i still don't :)
i think performance is 50 megabit, and performance w/ blast is 105 megabit, and the 105 megabit is burst only
but they decided to just let it burst to that speed all the time.
"Performance w/Blast" and "Blast" are the same thing
Just poorly named
yarly
heh.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Comcast/comments/2w8jnq/data_caps_for_all_comcast_xfinity_customers/
The agent is wrong
ok
(And speaking as someone who routinely exceeds 1TB/mo... I'd know)
ahh
(My router has me at 836GB this month so far)
nice
i don't acutally know how much i do
it'll be over 350gb/month
brycec: what do you do with over 1TB of transfer per month?
thats a lot of smokepings
Backups >.>
my smokeping does like 200gb/month
i had to upgrade my sydney vm because it was hitting the cap :(
(Comcast reads 803GB so far)
mercutio: how do you figure out how much an application uses?
(Ooh according to Comcast, January saw 1.440GB (or TB, depending on your decimal separator))
mnathani_: it's the only application on the host :)
smokeping box gotcha
mercutio: Maybe it's ddos traffic? :P
brycec: i'm doing curl with smokeping too
and it includes incoming and outgoing.
so you incur data trafer on the hosts being monitored as well
only if they're your hosts
yeah well i have multiple hosts checking multiple other hosts
if he's monitoring Google.com, they aren't going to charge-back :P
so i can see if there's a general issue or specific issue
well i only ping google
actually i started curling google from one host
it gives these spikes that ping doesn't..
google can detect automated searches
and throttle
and rate limit
yea
it's not a search
hit you with a captcha
it's just the main page
That's what she said!!
BryceBot: no
Oh, okay... I'm sorry. 'hit you with a captcha'
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Curl.google
it doesn't look ilek that though really?
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=Wider.google
oh
that one was a real issue :/
http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.google
so yeah i can easily see that wasn't a general google issue, although i didn't notice other sites with high ping/loss
why is Dec-Jan so high?
where?
http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?displaymode=n;start=2014-02-23%2018:13;end=now;target=Wider.google
oh that's vultr
they had fucked routing to google
google probably de-peered their session?
nah they just never peered with google i think
perhaps abuse related
and they're using NTT mostly
so it was hitting japan i think
for an entire month?
thats odd
it's vultr
there was some massive congestion issues in evenigns
I see posts from gamers complaining about pings to their gameservers hosted on vultr
http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.trademe
on their discuss.v*
http://syd.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=meh.xanadu
swee how broken it was in general
yeah their network sucks
but it's a lot better than it was
also it was peak time congestion for the most part
there's hardly any cheap options in sydney
http://202.49.71.24:24/smokeping/smokeping.fcgi?target=meh.lameh
that's to arp, pretty steady.
so like .1 msec jitter
seems to be progressively getting better
week 50 - week 02 steady, then latency drops a bit for the next weeks then again
it's going via san jose
but over any2ix in both directions now
it was sending via ntt and receiving via any2ix previously.
it would be about 125 to 126 msec if it went via los angeles direct.
and what like 129 msec if it went one way via los angeles
i wonder if i'm measuring anything in san jose
doesn't look like i am
http://la.meh.net.nz:24/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=Wider.wikipedia
hmm, arp got better to wikipedia
oh wikipedia is in san jose
well san francisco, but close enough.
yeah, the whole west coast is one big place
i have been meaning to figure out more good sites to test.
i'd like to test amazon and ebay, but they don't respond to ping
mercutio: how about a tcp ping on port 80?
could probably do that with hping
i'm actually thinking of making my own system sometime or other
but it's a big task that i haven't started on yet.  i want to be able to join multiple systems together better
like a cluster?
like being able to identify issues
preferably i want something lots of people can run
who might do a subset of tests
and look for pattenrs etc
my current plan is to start with dns though
as nothing really monitors dns that well
and with anycast etc around there can be local issues with dns
but to do it welle verything has to be async
including dns resolution
I wonder if up_the_irons is around and available to make a quick VPS change