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[08:54] <hazardous> saw this ad on HN, not sure what to feel
[08:54] <hazardous> We teach computer science using fullstack JavaScript. JavaScript is here in a big way and it is growing bigger every day. Today's internet demands real-time, interactive and dynamic apps that are built in JavaScript
[09:09] <RandalSchwartz> what's wrong with it?
[11:40] <brycec> Only the first sentence seems like marketing mumbo-jumbo. The rest is pretty factual.
[13:34] <mercutio> javscript is pretty fast now.
[14:56] <mercutio> http://www.cdotson.com/2014/08/nodejs-vs-python-vs-pypy-a-simple-performance-comparison/
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[18:37] <hazardous> just got home; yeah - js is pretty nice nowadays, i do use nodejs, but i still have doubts about the whole full stack thing, especially since server side js is starting to break off into different camps, and you have to wonder if a portion of the popularity would be because browsers simply don't support anything else
[18:38] <hazardous> that being said, for benchmarks and stuff, i honestly don't think i've ever seen things like typed arrays in js used outside of emscription/etc "compiled" js
[18:38] <hazardous> and a lot of other fun things, like es6 support also get more fun to deal with in browsers, but at least you can sanely shiv it server side
[18:39] <mercutio> oh i'm not actually a fan of javascript.
[18:39] <mercutio> i'm just noting that people are putting a lot of work into making it go faster.
[18:39] <mercutio> and node.js and the like sprouted from that.
[18:39] <hazardous> yeah, and now node.js is splitting into slappy-camps that seemingly don't like to cooperate with each other
[18:39] <hazardous> there's a second runtime or whatever for it now
[18:40] <brycec> And strictly, js isn't he only thing browsers support. Remember plugins? ActiveX controls? etc
[18:40] <hazardous> brycec: yeah, but you get what i mean
[18:40] <mercutio> i still use awk.
[18:40] <hazardous> like i guess there was <script language="VBScript"> in the past
[18:40] <hazardous> but that doesn't really count
[18:40] <mercutio> the current fragmentation reminds me of freshmeat.net 15 years ago or so.
[18:41] <mercutio> when everyhthing seemed to be about forks.
[18:41] <mercutio> including gcc!
[18:41] <mercutio> go egcs!
[18:41] <mercutio> and glibc.
[18:41] <hazardous> what happened to sourceforge anyway
[18:41] <hazardous> or even codeplex
[18:41] <mercutio> it's still there.
[18:41] <hazardous> all i ever see is github nowadays
[18:41] <mercutio> sourceforge has always been slow for download speeds for me.
[18:41] <hazardous> and on the rare times i encounter sourceforge i can barely get 50kb/s from their mirrors
[18:41] <mercutio> and it has these annoying mirror relocating things
[18:41] <hazardous> and on new uploads, mirrors are often not even in the US, just some random mirror in eastern europe
[18:41] <mercutio> which means you can't just copy url and put it somewhere else.
[18:42] <mercutio> so you have to statrt downloading, then copy the url that's downloading.
[18:42] <mercutio> i usually get 300k/sec+
[18:42] <hazardous> you can wget it from the /files page
[18:42] <mercutio> when kernel.org etc gives 3000k/sec+
[18:42] <hazardous> if your useragent is wget, it'll 302 it to the direct file
[18:42] <hazardous> unless you're downloading a windows binary
[18:42] <mercutio> i use curl
[18:43] <hazardous> can you curl http://sourceforge.net/projects/filezilla/files/FileZilla_Client_Unstable/3.10.1-rc1/FileZilla_3.10.1-rc1_x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.bz2/download and tell me what it downloads?
[18:43] <hazardous> i get 302ed to the direct download, and it starts
[18:43] <hazardous> with wget
[18:44] <hazardous> same thing with curl, but i have to force curl with -L
[18:44] <hazardous> it 302s up to 3-4 times
[18:50] <mercutio> nah it doesn't work in curl
[18:50] <mercutio> it works in wget, and wow, i got 1.93mb/sec
[18:51] <mercutio> from hivelocity
[18:51] <mercutio> although it named it download.1
[18:51] <mercutio> http://d.sfquickdelivery.com/?ic_user_id=128
[18:51] <mercutio> weird
[18:52] <mercutio> if i download in chrome it shows that
[18:52] <mercutio> which gives an internal service error if i try downloading it with wget
[18:52] <mercutio> so yeah it bloody sucks.
[18:52] <hazardous> i'm pretty sure that's for malware
[18:53] <hazardous> for like the "SPONSOSRED OFFERS INSTALLER" thing
[18:53] <mercutio> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/filezilla/FileZilla_Client_Unstable/3.10.1-rc1/FileZilla_3.10.1-rc1_x86_64-linux-gnu.tar.bz2?r=&ts=1423450248&use_mirror=tcpdiag
[18:53] <mercutio> that works.
[18:53] <mercutio> although now it's getting 200k/sec
[18:53] <mercutio> from iweb.dl.sourceforge.net
[18:53] <hazardous> yeah i dunno what it is about sourceforge but i haven't been able to get acceptable speeds from any mirror
[18:53] <hazardous> and only the largest projects actually get western mirrors from what i've encountered
[18:53] <mercutio> i got 1.93mb/sec from hivelocity
[18:54] <hazardous> i wouldn't call that very good though
[18:54] <mercutio> it's way better than 155kb/sec
[18:54] <hazardous> since github easily does line speed, but then again github is on a cdn iirc
[18:54] <mercutio> FileZilla_3.10.1-rc1_x86_64-linux- 100%[===============================================================>]   6.33M   155KB/s   in 32s
[18:55] <mercutio> github isn't cdn
[18:55] <mercutio> it's about the same ping as iweb and hivelocity
[18:56] <mercutio> they're all around 210 msec from nz, suggesting east coast US
[18:57] <mercutio> Receiving objects: 100% (27342/27342), 14.39 MiB | 1.62 MiB/s, done.
[18:57] <mercutio> i suppose still not wonderful, but it's faster than iweb :)
[18:57] <mercutio> and later git pulls are quicker
[18:57] <hazardous> what latency to/from github.map.fastly.net?
[18:58] <mercutio> % ping github.map.fastly.net
[18:58] <mercutio> PING github.map.fastly.net (103.245.222.133) 56(84) bytes of data.
[18:58] <mercutio> zsh: bus error  ping github.map.fastly.net
[18:58] <mercutio> i think i know the issue
[18:58] <mercutio> it's just funny :)
[18:58] <hazardous> lol
[18:58] <mercutio> 11 msec
[18:58] <mercutio> and i fixed the issue
[18:58] <mercutio> how's this for an obscure issue?  /etc/nsswitch.conf on arch linux has myhostname module in /etc/hosts
[18:59] <hazardous> you resolve your own dns?
[18:59] <mercutio> if that's in there, and you have too many routes, then netstat etc all randomly break when doing dns lookups
[18:59] <mercutio> i'm using dnsmasq here, but that's not the issue.
[18:59] <mercutio> the issue is i was experimenting with bird on here. (bgp)
[18:59] <mercutio> and i have a full routing table, and that overloads myhostname.
[19:00] <mercutio> so if you do netstat -t it'll crash
[19:00] <mercutio> but you do netstat -nt and it's fine
[19:00] <mercutio> ping is the same way it seems, so it'll be the reverse lookup on the ip address..
[19:01] <mercutio> so what's on this cdn thing anyweay
[19:02] <mercutio> cos my dsl is like 10 or 11 msec ping
[19:02] <hazardous> i dunno, random chunks
[19:02] <hazardous> github pages, downloads, presumablyt anything non-git
[19:02] <hazardous> like git:// or whatever
[19:02] <mercutio> well it doesn't seem the https clones are on it yeh
[19:04] <mercutio> avatars0.githubusercontent.com is on it
[19:04] <mercutio> https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/1024025?v=3&s=40
[19:04] <mercutio> that person looks familiar
[19:04] <hazardous> can't tell what that is
[19:05] <hazardous> is that elon musk i'm joking don't kill me
[19:05] <mercutio> heh
[19:05] <hazardous> interesting
[19:05] <hazardous> even the github api is behind fastly cdn
[19:05] <mercutio> i wish people would go to higher resolution avatars.
[19:06] <hazardous> but large file downloads in repos are served from amazon cloudfront
[19:06] <hazardous> didn't expect that
[19:06] <mercutio> i dunno who this elon musk is, but his wife is hot
[19:08] <brycec> Do you really not know anything about Elon Musk?
[19:08] <mercutio> i have heard of spacex
[19:08] <mercutio> i did a little google
[19:08] <mercutio> but his name doesn't register in my head at all
[19:09] <mercutio> apparently he's a billionare :/
[19:09] <brycec> wow... What must it be like for you under that little rock of yours?
[19:09] <brycec> Essentially, he's mankind's saviour.
[19:09] <mercutio> ?
[19:09] <brycec> Tesla Motors, SpaceX, a lot of other ideas to better the world.
[19:10] <brycec> (And there's also Paypal...)
[19:10] <mercutio> i've never seen a tesla car.
[19:10] <mercutio> and spacex seemed like some kind of pipe dream.  and paypal is something that ebay uses :/
[19:10] <brycec> FYI Musk is unmarried
[19:10] <mercutio> but yeah i don't know the high up names in paypal, ebay, amazon, etc.
[19:11] <mercutio> yeah said that they broke up reconciled, broke up
[19:11] <brycec> you've never seen a Tesla? wow... that is one very tiny rock
[19:11] <mercutio> well yeah there's no recharging stations here.
[19:11] <mercutio> and it's 50km to the airport
[19:11] <mercutio> don't they only run like 100km ?
[19:11] <brycec> @wa 260mi to km
[19:11] <BryceBot> convert 260 miles to kilometers;418.4 km  (kilometers);418429 meters;4.184×10^7 cm  (centimeters);225.9 nmi  (nautical miles);~~ 2.7 × length of the Thirlmere Aqueduct (world\'s longest tunnel) (~~ 154 km );~~ 4 × thickness of the Earth\'s atmosphere (~~ 100 km );~~ ( 0.066 ~~ 1\/15 ) × equatorial radius of Earth (~~ 6378 km );~~ ( 0.066 ~~ 1\/15 ) × polar radius of Earth (~~ 6357 km );~~ 3.8 × distance corresponding to one degree of latitu
[19:11] <mercutio> oh wow they run much further now
[19:12] <mercutio> oh and they look much more normal now too
[19:12] <mercutio> maye i have seen one and didn't notice
[19:12] <mercutio> also we dive on the left here.
[19:12] <mercutio> which means there are hardly any americans cars.
[19:12] <mercutio> and most cars come from japan..
[19:12] <hazardous> tesla is south african?
[19:13] <brycec> It's American.
[19:13] <m0unds> elon musk is from south africa
[19:13] <m0unds> he was born there, lives in the us
[19:13] <mercutio> http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/bringing-the-tesla-electric-car-to-nz-2014112218#axzz3RDJwlNnD
[19:13] <hazardous> hey do you know anything about australia, mercutio, because if so i have an incredibly stupid question
[19:13] <mercutio> looks like the first one came in in november last year
[19:13] <mercutio> hazardous: a little
[19:13] <m0unds> space-x is going to have a facility + hangar down in southern nm at the space port
[19:14] <hazardous> ok can i ask a really stupid question then
[19:14] <mnathani_> could anyone recommend 1 over the other for an online photo gallery: 4images	OR	Coppermine OR	Gallery OR  Piwigo OR  Pixelpost OR  Zenphoto
[19:15] <mercutio> sure, go ahead.
[19:15] <brycec> m0unds: Well, maybe. if that project ever actually gets anywhere... :P
[19:15] <hazardous> someone linked this in another channel - http://i.imgur.com/ttMlwGB.png - i have absolutely no idea why it's supposed to be funny other than the top flags are aus states
[19:15] <m0unds> which project?
[19:15] <brycec> m0unds: the spaceport
[19:15] <hazardous> mnathani: for some reason at least half of those stand out to me as really overbloated php applications with many security issues in the past
[19:15] <m0unds> construction is complete
[19:16] <m0unds> it's hinging on virgin at this point
[19:16] <brycec> m0unds: yeah, but Virgin ^^
[19:16] <m0unds> they're paying for it, but it's been delayed repeatedly
[19:17] <mnathani_> hazardous: would you recommend a different software?
[19:17] <brycec> The only self-hosted image gallery I'm familiar with is Gallery (or is it Gallery2?)
[19:18] <hazardous> mnathani: from (probably dated, but probably still applies) i wouldn't use coppermine or 4images at the very least
[19:18] <hazardous> it'd probably be easier to recommend something if you had a use case
[19:18] <hazardous> like personal vacation photos or something to upload for friends - maybe a static site generator or something
[19:18] <mercutio> well australians curse a lot
[19:18] <m0unds> flickr wouldn't work?
[19:18] <mercutio> but yeah no it seems like random australian crap to me
[19:18] <mnathani_> showcase photographs I take publicly
[19:19] <hazardous> yeah, would you consider some kind of photoblog software for it/portfolio cms thing
[19:19] <mnathani_> I don't like how flickr doesnt give me google analytics style statistics
[19:19] <m0unds> smugmug works if you plan on selling prints
[19:19] <hazardous> flickr does full page interstitials for anyone with a mobile user agent btw
[19:19] <mnathani_> and can change its frontend without notice
[19:19] <mercutio> i'd just write my own :/
[19:19] <hazardous> and occasionally forced redirects to play store / ios store
[19:19] <hazardous> lol
[19:19] <mercutio> but i think gallery is ocommon?
[19:20] <brycec> http://galleryproject.org/ ^
[19:20] <hazardous> "The Gallery team has decided to take a step back from actively maintaining this project. Truth be told, most of the core team got busy with their lives over the past few years and we haven't had the time to really actively maintain the project in a long time"
[19:20] <brycec> I used it years and years ago, no issue. it's pretty common...
[19:20] <mercutio> http://www.ubergallery.net/demo/
[19:20] <mercutio> this looks simple enough?
[19:20] <hazardous> mercutio: i dunno, could give it a try, if it was for some kind of portfolio or showcase site i might be inclined to use ghost or wordpress or something with an appropriate theme
[19:22] <m0unds> i used gallery years ago, but it was a total pig
[19:23] <m0unds> if all you're doing is hosting images, you could even do a flat html template and host via s3 or something
[19:23] <hazardous> galleryproject.org says they plan on going readonly, then shutting down their site soon
[19:23] <hazardous> yeah i was going to say consider some kind of static site generator maybe
[19:23] <hazardous> if it isn't going to be some public shared upload gallery thing
[19:23] <mnathani_> checking out flickr again
[19:24] <acf_> I haven't been able to find anything that comes anywhere close to Flickr
[19:24] <m0unds> i'm a fan of smugmug myself
[19:25] <acf_> wow. that looks nice
[19:29] <m0unds> i think i pay like $60/yr for my acct. i back up all my photos to it, can use a vanity domain, control the template, etc.
[19:30] <m0unds> good customer service too, always really fast to answer questions and fix stuff
[19:32] <mercutio> hmm smugmug is yet another site on cloudflare.
[19:32] <mercutio> cloudflare is getting so popular these days.
[19:33] <m0unds> yep, what works works
[19:33] <mercutio> i used to hold a pretty negative view on it, because it tended to be slow, but you can't beat the pricing.
[19:33] <m0unds> oh, $48/yr i guess
[19:33] <mercutio> and performance has got better over time.
[19:33] <mercutio> i wonder how much trafifc they're doing now
[20:06] <hazardous> bank of america online payments uses cloudflare
[20:06] <hazardous> im not sure what to think about that, or whether to like it.
[20:10] <mercutio> i wouldn't be impressed.
[20:11] <mercutio> i would not use bank of america over that.
[20:11] <mercutio> one of the big banks here runs on windows.
[20:11] <mercutio> the bank that i use runs on solaris/java
[20:11] <mercutio> and they also peer :/
[20:12] <mercutio> they did have path mtu issues in teh past. i  don't know if they still do, but they block icmp echo
[21:42] <JC_Denton> banks are so behind the times on tech, but it's hard for them to be faster movers
[21:57] <mercutio> it's kind of to be expected
[22:00] <mercutio> so it seems bank of america is using prolexic
[22:00] <mercutio> where is their cloudflare stuff?
[22:32] <mnathani_> As of March 2014, CloudFlare was ranked in the top 10 of the world's worst hosts and networks based on malicious traffic it hosts
[22:32] <mnathani_> " " ^
[22:32] <mnathani_> off Wikipedia
[22:40] <mercutio> it's free to host on there
[23:26] <mercutio> tbh i'm not really that opposed to a global cdn hosting web sites with stolen credit cards.
[23:26] <mercutio> because they're not really a host
[23:26] <mercutio> they just proxy the traffic
[23:27] <mercutio> and once they start deciding what is good and bad to host it's a slippery slope
[23:32] <mercutio> now i'm tempted to google my old credit card #
[23:33] <mercutio> dreamhost is higher on that list